CHRIS MATTHEWS: What do you think he showed the grand jury to convince them to indict?
TOM DELAY: You don't have to — what do I know? You know, grand juries, it's all one-sided. It is all what he presents to the grand jury, how he spins, how he presents it. Everybody says you can indict a ham sandwich with a grand jury.
MATTHEWS: Yes, I have heard that term.
DELAY: This is a ham sandwich indictment without the ham.