9.30.2009

Does This Football Sign Violate Separation Between Church And State

Story.

55 comments:

Anonymous said...

It does if you are a liberal weenie.

Anonymous said...

I am a regular church attendee – having said that I agree that there should be no organized prayer in school.

The key part of the prayer in school issues is whose prayer gets prayed. Talked to any Protestant or Jew that has lived in a western state were all state and local offices are controlled by the members of the Church of Latter Day Saints and see what they think.

They do have prayer in school – it’s the Mormon prayer.

Anonymous said...

The nuts are taking over, or so it seems. Only in America can the rights of one out-weigh the rights of the majority. I'm not saying that it is right for the school to promote bible scripture, but I would sure be able to come up with a list of things that are common place that shouldn't be going on in our schools that are not given a second thought.Some people need to get a hobby to occupy their idle time and leave the cheerleaders alone. I guess if I was to throw my hands in the air and scream "Jesus H.Christ!!!!" I would be next on the list of violators. I would be OK unless I did it at a football game, I guess!

Anonymous said...

Of course not
Everybody (meaning good God-fearing Christian souls bound for heaven's reward) knows that God has his son, Jesus H. Christ, intervene in the outcomes of football, and other, athletic contests. Why else would all those pro and college athletes keep invoking his name before, during, and after all the games? If it works for them, then surely it must work for the high school player, right?

I can just hear the cheerleaders now..."Press on toward the goal, to win the prize..."

Anonymous said...

Football? No
Any other sport? Most likely - football IS religion...around these parts, anyway.
Maybe in some of those panty-waist states, that might be an issue for the courts, but not here

Kip said...

do any schools have stallion or mustang mascots? this might work for them.

Ezekiel 23:19-20
Yet she increased her prostitution, remembering the days of her youth when she engaged in prostitution in the land of Egypt. She lusted after their genitals – as large as those of donkeys, and their seminal emission was as strong as that of stallions.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps it is a Christian/Catholic school. Those do still exist.

mzchief said...

Just think of the gritching there would be if it was a passage from the Qur'an.

double fake Thomas Jefferson said...

"Congress shall make no law..." is the only reference to separating religion from politics in the constitution. You liberals throw around that "spearation between church and state" phrase like it's law or something.
If the Principals or Superintendent is making the cheerleaders paint the messages, then there could be a legal issue. If it's the cheerleaders painting them on their own, then there's nothing in the law that should stop them.

Anonymous said...

Hmmm. I must have missed that law that legally separates church and state. Could you cite it for me, law boy? I know it's not in the Constitution...

DocLogic said...

The sign is not appropriate for a public school football game, and so is a prayer before the game, but that is very routine at many high schools.

It's not worth a court case, but the cheerleader sponsor and principal should handle that before it happens.

That's what I read in church every Sunday.

Anonymous said...

nope.

cep

Anonymous said...

If it's not a Christian school, which I don't see that it is, then this sign is inappropriate. Not everyone supports the Christian religion and shouldn't have it crammed down their throats.

Anonymous said...

For the me the irony is I find it a bit sac-religious that this bible verse about winning the prize is being used for a football game....I think it has been taken WAY out of context.

Anonymous said...

9:36 is right - can you imagine the outrage if a Buddhist or a Muslim decided to hold up signs from their religions? Bible-thumpers are all for having the right to push their doctrine, but they waste no time in shooting down the beliefs of others.

Anonymous said...

So where was that sign?

And as far as whether the rights of one individual can't be steamrolled by the tyrannical majority --

9:15, isn't that what America is all about?

Anonymous said...

What does the "H" stand for? His middle name? and that would be....???

Anonymous said...

It's rather disheartening to realize that there is this level of ignorance about this countries founding, it's founders and it's Constitution even here, on the outer rim of the Republic.
Isn't it obvious what occurs in a society when religion and governance are melded?
Look to the Middle East!
Indeed, we have willfully degenerated into a nation of religious fanatics and adolescent morons!

Anonymous said...

The "H" is a reference to the line used in the movie"Full Metal Jacket" in which R Lee, the drill instructor, is screaming at the new privates and he proclaims"Jesus H. Christ, private Pyle!!" I guess you had to be there. It's not funny when you have to explain it.

Anonymous said...

I agree that it's really stupid to ask for God to bless a GAME. Kind of reduces Him to the level of someone who really cares about something so trivial.

Anonymous said...

Guess that sign didn't help out too much when they lost to the hated Wolfpack from North Paulding, 41-38.

Anonymous said...

Why is putting up a sign before a football game a violation of the separation of church and state? Wasn't that meant to keep the government out of our churches? The government cannot dictate who or what we worship...abd cramming it down your throat? A sign does that? Really?

Anonymous said...

No, it doesn't. However the verse is misquoted. It is the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, which Paul said was knowing Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings. Not a football game.

wordkyle said...

If 3/4 of the American population were Buddhist, there would likely be no outcry over a Buddhist prayer. If 3/4 of the US were Muslim, there would likely be no outcry over a Muslim prayer. 76% of Americans are Christian. If we're playing "what if" let's balance the equation.

Having said all that, other than the usual human knuckleheadedness, most Christians are pretty tolerant of other religions.

Anonymous said...

That Scripture has no relevance to a football game - though there are similarities between "pressing on", it has a different meaning for the Christian.

I respect that Scripture, but feel it really has no place on a football field.

10:34 is right. We have degenerated into a nation of religious fanatics. I'm too old to run, but when one of those nuts approaches me I walk as fast away as I can.

Most of them come on strong because some nut preacher told them if they didn't they'd go to hell.

Anonymous said...

The actor playing the drill instructor in Full Metal Jacket was named R. Lee Ermey, listed in the credits as Lee Ermey. His character's name, though rarely used during the movie, was GnySgt Hartman, I think.
And the use of the phrase with H. as the middle initial has been in use long before that movie was ever thought of, surely even before the time period in the movie

You're right about one thing, though. It's not funny if you have to explain it...or correct the explanation. Unless you're saying you were there during the shooting of the movie, or in Marine boot camp during Vietnam?

Anonymous said...

Phillipians 3:13,14 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and pressing forward to the things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

I love these verses!

Anonymous said...

Last time I checked, school administrators, teachers, etc. were not allowed to promote any form of religion. However, NOTHING can stop a student from engaging in a prayer, bringing their Bible to school, or writing down a Bible verse at a football game.

All you Bible scholars are quick to point out that the verse was somewhat taken out of context. For me, as I read it it makes me think that these cheerleaders wanted to go out on an unpopular limb here and testify that they love their Lord and aren't ashamed of it! I applaud teenagers that put more thought into their belief system, rather than worrying what someone will think or say!

Anonymous said...

God must be into school football. Each team prays hard for victory, God decides which team will win. He may even decide the winner the previous day.

bBoxerfan said...

wordkyle:

It shouldn't matter how many are "this" or how many are "that." If Christians want to run to the freedom of speech (and I believe they have it) defense, then it doesn't just apply to whoever's in the majority - it applies to everyone. So if you want to use that defense, fine, but be prepared to have it challenged by those who don't share your views.

Personally, if I was that offended by a silly sign, I would just make one that said something along the lines of "There is no God." Agree or not, majority or minority, I'm practicing my right to free speech.

Anonymous said...

Maybe another question would be why is that so offensive to non-Christians? If you don't believe the Bible just ignore it. If some athlete offers praise to Allah in an interview for example as a christian I ignore it. I wouldn't care if the cheerleaders made a sign that quoted the Koran, I would ignore it. That doesn't mean that the state has established religion any more than the verse from Philippians.

Too many people looking for reasons to get mad. Let it be.

Seems like we ignore the second part of the amendment "the free exercise thereof". Christians are called by their faith to go and tell. That includes the school and the office and the town square (even a football fields)

Anonymous said...

12:05 - I love those verses too, but don't think the last part of it is about attaining the "prize" of winning a football game.

Sheesh, what Scripture would a Bible thumper use to slam in the face of the losing team?

People often pick and choose Bible verses to suit what they want God to do for them next.

Trying to manipulate God for our own purposes defies explanation.

DocLogic said...

If both teams put up a sign that includes a bible verse then who will win?

Anonymous said...

hey bitches. Growing up in Texas, I played football from 4th grade through high school. I sat in on many, many pre-game and post-game prayers. My thoughts:
1) Yeah, if I was a non-Christian I could see how this could be an issue. How does the Jewish/Muslim/Agnostic kid feel while everyone else is praying to a deity that his parents don't believe in?
2) I have never, ever heard a prayer for victory. I've heard prayers about playing our best, not getting hurt, displaying good sportsmanship and respecting the opposing team. But never have I heard a prayer that our team should win, or that God prefers our team.

Anonymous said...

Wordkyle....I think you offer a very valid point. "Balancing the equation" is exactly right; when the majority of the people are of the same religion, there is usually not much attention drawn to it.

On a different note, this made me remember something from when I went to a Baptist college way back when. When I registered, I knew it was a Baptist University and I was required to attend the Chapel service each week. It got under my skin when people would protest going to chapel because they didn't believe in the same doctrine and it was "offensive." I'm sorry, last time I checked when the word Baptist is in the college's name, there's a pretty good chance you are going to be exposed to some Baptist doctrine!

The majority of the USA believes in the Christian doctrine. There's a pretty good chance you will be exposed to some Christian principles if you live in this country. I agree with the earlier post....if you don't like it, ignore it!

Anonymous said...

Courts have consistently backed student-led (as in deciding to do it, choose who prays it, etc)

And the court has struck down admin deciding the when, who, and what.

Anonymous said...

Where the H comes from...

"Since the transliteration IHS gave rise to the backronym Iesus Hominum Salvator (Latin for "Jesus savior of men"), it is plausible that JHC similarly led to Jesus H Christ."

The phrase was being used as early as 1850, so its been around awhile.

Double Fake Scroll Keeper

Anonymous said...

1:23 - how do you know some posters are the rude name you called them?

What names do you give the men?

Since you played football, we know you are a man.

I'd give you a choice word, but don't want to see, "post deleted by the author".

Your second point is well taken. I've never heard a prayer at a football game for victory either, but appreciate prayers for the safety and spirit of all.

And an interesting thing. I've seen teams get in a circle and have prayer before other athletic events. Why is public prayer only reserved for the football game?

Go figure.

Anonymous said...

damn - can't these people be satisfied by just going to church on sundays. always have to rub others' noses in their beliefs. "hey, look at me, im a christian!"

Anonymous said...

2:19 - I could not agree more. If folks lived their Christianity more and gabbed about it less, it could make the world better.

Anonymous said...

Darn. I still can't find where "Separation of Church and State" is a law anywhere.

The sign may violate the left's delicate sensibilities, but nowhere does it violate anything more than an idea that Thomas Jefferson had.

Sorry, you goofy liberals. You lose again.

wordkyle said...

bB - I'm not sure what of my comment you're trying to refute. I'll clarify my thought a bit more. Someone earlier, supporting MzChief, said "imagine the outrage if a Buddhist or Muslim held up signs for their religions."

First, I don't imagine there would be much outrage. Despite the ubiquitous Liberal claims, Christians are, for the most part, pretty tolerant of other religions.
Second, such signs would have little or no impact if the majority of the populace were of that religion. Only around 5% of Americans are Buddhists, and I think Muslims are a similar percentage. The only thing remarkable about such signs being shown would be their rarity.

My main beef is with the intense anti-Christian bigotry displayed. Outlandish claims are made about Christians that wouldn't be tolerated for any other group. (Okay, you can say anything you want about white males and Southerners, but everyone else is off limits.) Prejudice is prejudice.

Anonymous said...

Great literature...we need more of it at high school sports.


Apostle Paul

Anonymous said...

Actually no one is off limits. Stupidity is stupidity

And if white male Christians seem to catch it more than most, maybe that should tell them something.

Anonymous said...

For Christ sake little people. All ya gotta do is walk in front of them there signs with a lit cigarette and pull a big fat trip scene. I'm sure that pretty black paper will go up in flames beautifully.

Double Fake Smokey the Bear

wordkyle said...

423 - I meant off limits in polite society (or risk legal action.) Is your intended meaning about white male Christians along the line of "they have it coming to them?"

Anonymous said...

It seems to me the biggest problem is that our schools are "government" schools where the purpose seems to be to promote government. Not mentioning God is teaching our children at the least that God is unimportant. I believe the answer is to quit requiring parents to pay taxes to "government" schools and allow parents to have true choice.

Anonymous said...

It seems to me the biggest problem is that our schools are "government" schools where the purpose seems to be to promote government. Not mentioning God is teaching our children at the least that God is unimportant. I believe the answer is to quit requiring parents to pay taxes to "government" schools and allow parents to have true choice.

Anonymous said...

You gotta keep'em separated.

Double Fake The Offspring

Anonymous said...

Oh, now I understand. Government schools promote government. That is why Obama was cut out of the loop for the school speech. Promote government. Yes.

Anonymous said...

Well if I understand my bible, Jesus teaches that we are to constantly live for Him. Not just on sundays. I am NOT ashamed of my Jesus are YOU?

Anonymous said...

Wordkyle, I get what you are saying. It's like we "tolerate" any sort of prejudice against white, southern males and that is found to be acceptable. Any other form of prejudice is just wrong, though!

Anonymous said...

why arent we keeping it to ourselves? because God says in his word to go out into the uttermost parts of the earth preaching his word and telling others about him so people can come to know the True Amazing Everlasting God Almighty. and no people dont burn in hell. the eternal goal isnt to win as many football games as possible, the eternal goal is to spend eternity with Jesus Christ so the cheerleaders are doing their part as God has called them to do! just think about it, how do u think we got on this Earth? we came from monkeys? i dont think so! PRAISE GOD ON HIGH!!!

Anonymous said...

Yes.

Anonymous said...

5:41

Is your Jesus the one with beard or the little Baby Jesus?

My Jesus is the Baby Jesus. I like him a lot better.

Double Fake Ricky Bobby