For years, if anyone screamed "socialism" I was ready to grab my 12 gauge shotgun and prepare to defend freedom. And then, slowly, I began to realize how much socialism is already part of our daily lives.
If we define it as the taking from all to be used for the benefit of all (a definition I just made up), then we have:
- Police Protection
- Fire Protection
- Sewer systems
- Water (with an added per use surcharge)
- Education of children
- Some college education
- Mail Delivery (with a small extra surcharge)
- Military Protection
- Transportation (highways, rail, bus)
- Bank failure protection (FDIC)
- Criminal justice protection (prisons, probation departments)
- Civil liberties protection (trial courts, appellate courts)
But we freak out if we add "health care" to the list?
And I'm probably missing some.
Edit: Sheesh. The first few commentors seem to discount the list with the rationale of "that's not socialism, those are things that government
does." Uh, that's my point.
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For years, if anyone screamed "socialism" I was ready to grab my 12 gauge shotgun and prepare to defend freedom. And then, slowly, I began to realize how much socialism is already part of our daily lives.
If we define it as the taking from all to be used for the benefit of all (a definition I just made up), then we have:
67 comments:
No, you're not missing anything. You're just an idiot whose philosophy will cost the next two or three generations their freedom and require a civil war to correct.
Thanks a lot butt-head
You know I worked for years as a RN for a doctor and he predicted socialized medicine years ago...the malpractice suits has made it impossible for good doctors to practice....I know the law suits are for those that do wrong but it is hurting all of us because sooooo many are soooo unwarranted...hurts those that honestly have a complaint...its time.....
Not sure that socialized health care is the answer but something needs to change. I think one could argue the point that your profession is partly to blame.
Just sayin.
The socialism that's coming will not eliminate the elite class, as you, BHO, and Bill Ayers envision. It will reduce the number of successful Americans and further concentrate the wealth and power in the hands of an even smaller elite, leaving the vast majority of the population worse off. But for some reason you guys act like Cuba, Venezuela, Soviet Union, Myanmar, China, etc. etc are irrelevant examples of where this will all lead.
I'm continuing to stock up on ammo and teach my kids the truth about what really built this country and why that is worth defending.
You go right ahead and squander all of that by giving it away to non-producers. I guess all you fags withiut children aren't so concerned about posterity as we parents are.
Thanks a lot Butt-Head
Correction: Fags WITHOUT children
Most of what you mention has been traditionally part of the "community" or government. The Preamble to the Constitution even says "provide for the common defense." Those government functions with a very specific and restricted mission do the best. The military and the police come to mind. When politicians interfere with the regular function of those duties to assuage special interests or embrace popular fads, effectiveness declines. (That is one reason why our educational system, great for 150 years, has declined since the introduction of social engineering into schools by Liberals in the 1960s.)
The nationalization of the banks and eventually the healthcare industry seizes privately-owned and operated businesses that our society has spent hundreds of years establishing. At one time the attempt to take what someone else has built was called piracy.
The nationalization of industries is akin to the Supreme Court's liberal extension of eminent domain to allow cities to seize private property from one citizen to give to another citizen, simply because they can collect more in taxes. In both cases the intent is not to provide benefits to the citizens, but instead to give the government more control over the lives of those citizens.
And that's why socialism is bad.
Okay, everybody go to your local VA hospital and take a good look around.
That's what your nationalized health care is going to look like.
We can't even give our wounded vets the quality of care we're used to and you think turning it all over to the government will fix things?
~ Triple Fake Born on the Fourth of July
WK- I agree with you but sometimes you sound so smart that the majority of simpletons that populate these parts miss the point.
Oh, and you forgot to sign off with
"thanks a lot butthead"
Jeez, Mr. Green-
Are you really so freakin' stupid as to fail to understand that that list really has nothing to do with the federal government gaining control over vast areas previously administered efficiently by the private sector? And when it moves on to TV, radio, and internet, as in other forked up countries, that you will still think the trend is a good idea?
Be very careful what you wish for. It just might come true.
Thanks a lot, BUTT-HEAD
8:51-
You are dead wrong. The scum-bag parasite lawyers are ENTIRELY to blame, not partly.
No, we don't "freak out" at adding health care to the list.
WE "FREAK OUT" at adding gun control, queer marriage, bank ownership, unlimited welfare, open borders, chatting up muslim radicals who want to kill us, and Nancy Pelosi to the list.
Thanks alot butthead- I used to like America just fine, but I'm pretty sure giving it away to the niggers is not gonna make it a better place
We have a lot of angry people out tonight. Chill out people. Why are ya'll so mad at Barry?
If we socialize health care, where will Canadians go to get quality health care?
BG- Its not that Govt shouldn't run some things, its the level of Govt and local control over those services that are necessary for the people utilizing those services; versus a completely unaccountable collection of career civil servants 2000 miles away telling you your child can't have some type of medical procedure because its not cost effective and praying you can flash some green and the good Dr will do it anyway.
At local level there is much higher accountability, especially in smaller communities.
Besides if you want to be really pissed off look up how the CHILD TAX CREDIT works on your tax return.
Tell your TX state rep to support HB528
BG- Its not that Govt shouldn't run some things, its the level of Govt and local control over those services that are necessary for the people utilizing those services; versus a completely unaccountable collection of career civil servants 2000 miles away telling you your child can't have some type of medical procedure because its not cost effective and praying you can flash some green and the good Dr will do it anyway.
At local level there is much higher accountability, especially in smaller communities.
Besides if you want to be really pissed off look up how the CHILD TAX CREDIT works on your tax return.
Tell your TX state rep to support HB528
What happens when the 5 or 10 percent of people who actually provide all the wealth and taxes decide to take their balls and go home? If I am offered another $20,000, I am turning it down. Don't want to become among the "punished class" whose only crime is making more than $250k, paying and supporting for the needs of their family, giving a third of what they make back to run the country, their state, their cities, all the while being despised, hated, with a big evil target on their back. No thanks, keep me less than $250k. What's the point in giving more? My back is sore, and if my efforts were appreciated as opposed to being villified, I would feel different.
Let's look at the bright side. The Green movement folks have to be elated. With all the layoffs and jobless there are a lot less drivers on the road, less pollution and less need for those awful clean coal plants. With so many unable to afford electricity, we're not wasting so much. We don't need to build the Trans Texas Corridor, which is already dead I understand, or any other new awful toll road. No more unsightly development, and lots more trees and bushes growing up around abandoned homes. Yes, America is going green. Paper or plastic? Mute. Less buying going on. And so forth, and so on.
You gonna trade that 12 gauge for a Kroger card at Reunion Arena on Saturday?
Im not mad at Barry, but I do agree with 10:01 minus the racist remark. Baby arm.
Thanks a lot butt-head.
That's how the liberal weenies suck you in. They do it slowly so you don't notice. Then they elect a communist community organizer and then shove the rest of it down your throat after it's too late to reverse it.
Ok, so our government will be handing out checks to the states for projects. Texas has one of the longest wish lists.
Think Goodhair will send it back?
It will be fun to watch him try to save his political a$$ on this one.
Fun times!
"Sheesh. The first few commentors seem to discount the list with the rationale of "that's not socialism, those are things that government does." Uh, that's my point"
Because you are a liberal, socialist already - you will never "get it".
Go to any Indian reservation and check into their nationalized health care. It's pitiful, almost neglectful!
Possibly now, if the gov't reduces welfare subsidies, those who are jobless will now consider and possibly actually DO those jobs that all the illegals are here doing. Therefore, the illegals can LEAVE! That's not a bad thought!
Why doesn't Obama "fix" healthcare right now by mandating that if one is NOT a legal citizen in this country, then they will have to pay for their OWN health care. Our tax dollars should NOT cover their expenses....not one dime!
Holy Crap Barry you hit the hornets nest wth a sledgehammer, you stirred it up now. Even though I don't agree with your post on this matter, I have to hand it to you, brother, you got'em goin. You da man!!
Oh yea, way to go butt-head
The federal government is an institution to enforce the constitution and to protect the citizens of this country. That is it...There should not be ANY program coming from our federal government that doesn't have to do with defense and human rights.
The STATES are the ones that should be funding any type of socialized goods or service.
What you are missing is the cost of government run health care for ALL including illegals.
If the hard left, who think government run health care is better,tax all the money the top 5% make, it won't pay for what Obama and Pelosi plan to do!
Seniors are most vunerable because their care will be rationed because the medical providers will not be reimbursed if they fail to follow the guidelines. Medicare premiums will go up to help cover the cost of adding all those who do not have health care in.
We will not have choices. Medical providers will leave their professions and health care quality will decrease.
Socialism is not government providing for the common good; it is taking from responsible citizens to give to those who have less because of their choices.
Remember Argentina and what happened when 40% were footing the bill for the other 60%. At some point those who get up and go to work very hard to make over $250,000 and are forced to give 40%to pay for all the crap passed in the stimulus and health care for everyone will become weary of being punished for their success!
Just look at history and what happens in socialist countries for our future.
Government run banks, health care and control of business is where we are heading at a pace not expected by anyone!
People are angry, scared and preparing for a complete melt down. Obama is a dreamer not living in reality. He grew up that way and he is leading us off the cliff with NO one to stop him.
Watching all those foolish congressmen wait over 23 hours just to get to shake his had the other night makes me sick! Shame on them!
If you really wanted to piss us off with this, you have accomplished it.
everyone is afraid the socialized healthcare system will be like the postal service.
I think socialism is typically defined in regards to industry instead of services and that's where I see the difference in your list and where we seem to be headed in our country.
To Obama's credit, he didn't start the current socialist movement by injecting federal money into private industry. In my brief lifetime, I think of the Chrysler debacle as the first instance and it has become easier since then.
Obama is correct that he inherited this mess as did other Presidents before him. If he didn't know it was there before, he was an idiot. If he did, he needs to quit taking potshots and get to work. His rhetoric will only last so long.
Jarhead, I have been to a VA hospital and no, it's not a pretty picture. At the same time, I don't have a job that provides health care and cannot afford it so when I'm sick there is nothing but what I can afford at Walmart on the counter. I don't know what the answer is but the current over-priced, over-insured, over-litigated health care system doesn't work.
Obama spoke the truth when he said it is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Now we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
When soicalism fails and it will. We got ourselves in this mess and we will have to get ourselves out of it. In the meantime our country will suffer a lot!
In reviewing what Texas cities get in the stimulous packages, get this: Part of the funds Dallas gets go to build a HOTEL next to the civic center.
Good times.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money"
Mararet Thatcher.
Norman Mattoon Thomas was a six time presidential candidate for the socialist party, he said...
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, withouth knowing how it happened!"
"I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform"
Barry, as a fellow blogger who resides over here on Earth, what's it like preaching to a red-neck, blue-collar, closed-minded choir up there on the alien planet you call Wise County? My sympathies.
Yeah, everybody hates "socialism" until it's something that they need. Nobody ever wants to pay for Social Security until their parents are on it, nobody wants to pay for roads until their road is torn up, nobody wants to pay for good schools except the one their kids go to...whatever. The fact is we're a country full of both liberals, conservatives, moderates and non-political people who want our government to provide for certain things, but we want that money to magically come from nowhere (the Chinese I guess.) You opponents of "socialism" need to do one of two things: grow up, or quit taking the taxpayers money. If you want a libertarian paradise, join a FLDS commune and leave the money for the rest of us who don't mind taking it. If you can't do that, just hush and let adults try to figure out how to pay for the stuff you keep demanding.
Why not let them handle health care? They have done such a great job with social security. Also, everything the government regulates seems to run efficiently. Just like mortgage lending. They REQUIRED sub-prime lending. Now look where we are. If you want health care costs to rise and you don't mind waiting in line for hours on end, the you should support government ran health care!
8:32
so your only cool if your an east cost tofue eatin pansy who thinks Gov. is the answer to everything.
Screw you im an American too and your gonna need me to pay for all this shit. you might just say thank you.
8:47 - so true - I wonder how many raging conservatives on this board have family members who receive Social Security or Medicare benefits?
We will never know.
We would all be better people if we just socialized more.
Lisa Ling interiewed some folks yesterday who are living in tent communities - folks who have lost their homes and fallen upon other ghastly economic times.
I do wonder if any of these folks will get help from the stimulous package.
The government is totally out of control.
So are we because we elected these idiots.
Also, everything the government regulates seems to run efficiently. Just like mortgage lending.
Clearly the answer to the subprime lending crisis is LESS regulation. It was those burdensome regulations that required subprime lenders to not verify income or employment that got us into this mess after all.
The problem is not the lawyers, it is the insurance industry.
Managed care companies make billions and give their executives millions in compensation. How do they do this? They charge the insured more every year and pay the doctors less, pocketing the rest as the middle man.
The politicians don't talk about it though, as they are all owned by the insurance lobby.
Even when medicine gets socialized, they will have their piece, but probably a bigger one at our expense.
Bridgeport's electricity bills have skyrocketed and likely many folks just won't be able to pay them.
Enter tent communities.
Mayor Majka says the folks weren't listening a while back when all this was in front of the public and few showed up to protest. No, Mr. Mayor, because folks know it will do no good.
Course the Mayor of Bridgeport talks and talks and talks and talks and says little.
Yada Yada disease.
9:30, I couldn't agree with you more.
If a premium isn't paid EXACTLY on the due date, here comes a "I'm gonna cancel your insurance" letter.
Those folks are one thing:
GREEDY!
Xanthippis - I have parents on SS and I still don't want to pay for it. Did you not notice the confirmation fiascos dealing with non-payment of taxes? Democrats want everyone to pay for these things but they actually don't pay!
This is to 854....
The scariest and saddest thing of all that has been said so far in this blog is your ignorant and uninformed comments. Teaching your children violence and using words like "fag" ....that is what is wrong with America today. Parents who are stupid and repeat the cycle of stupidity for the rest of us to correct. No wonder the schools are in such jeopardy...having to deprogram such bad parenting.
Social Security has been brought up a couple of times. That program's the perfect example of poor government results. Social Security has a rate of return of about 1.23% against the stock market's average return (since 1950) of about 5.4%. In other words, money left in the taxpayers' hands would earn nearly four and a half time more. So right off the bat, citizens lose because of the inefficiency of government.
In 1940, each Social Security beneficiary was supported by 41 workers. Within a few years, each beneficiary will be supported by fewer than three workers. Bernie Madoff had a scheme that worked like this for a long time, too. The government consistently fails to eliminate or adapt programs that no longer work as they were originally designed. Instead they expand, becoming even more inefficient in all things but one -- providing government jobs. Once again, instead of providing benefit to citizens, the sole purpose is to protect the jobs of bureaucrats.
Yes, grandparents and parents have gladly received Social Security benefits. They were forced to participate in a scheme that took money from their pockets. They would have been much better off financially without the plan. However, given no choice they had to wait by the mailbox while the government doled out what it saw fit to give them back. Instead of being self sufficient they were relegated to awating government handouts. The government took affluence from all so it could bestow destitution on the many.
Socialism reeks.
Here's somethin I was just thinkin about a little earlier:
Wordkyle do you think you're some kind of Talk Show host or what?
No one gives a rats ass what you think.
Actually 10:56 AM... most of the time he makes great points, they make people mad because they cannot refute them, so the resort to name calling. Like you.
I do not agree with all that WordKyle has to say. But for every redneck that makes Wise County look backwards on here... there is one person like you who show us that lack of intelligence rests on both sides of the debate.
1056 - Sorry you don't enjoy reading my posts. You could always just not read them. Wouldn't it be handy if above every one of my comments my name was highlighted in big blue letters? Oh, wait...
And thanks for the kinds words, MH.
Xanthippis - I have parents on SS and I still don't want to pay for it.
Well, at least you have principles if nothing else.
Social Security has a rate of return of about 1.23% against the stock market's average return (since 1950) of about 5.4%. In other words, money left in the taxpayers' hands would earn nearly four and a half time more. So right off the bat, citizens lose because of the inefficiency of government.
These seems like a bad time to make an argument about the power of private investment. There are quite a few people who were counting on their 401ks to get them through who are now be reading SS brochures.
Xanthippas:
"Are you a virgin?
I'll bet you a million dollars that
you are! Let's end the suspense!
Is it gonna be...
...a white weddin'?"
I just checked out your blog and no one can be as nerdy as you and get any action. Any female action anyway.
You seem a little aloof and uptight. And long-winded. Oh well, what does it matter? Judging by your blog counter no one except my dumb ass reads your blog anyway.
I'll bet you spend Saturday nights playing with Star Wars figures. I guarantee you play D&D and dress up with your goofy buddies and role play fantasy games with swords and shit. Don't you? Ahhhh! You do!
I know I'm hitting too close to home. Speaking of, you live with your mom, don't you? Oh! hahaha! It's okay, bro. It's normal to live with your parents through your mid 20s. huuuuuuuhhhhhaha.
Ahhh, I could go on all day. Keep posting, though. Maybe someday someone besides me will link to your blow-hard blog 9that's why you post here, isn't it? Free publicity) and be interested enough to waste their day reading the voluminous dry as a bone material on there.
What a snooze-fest you are.
DOUBLE FAKE BENDER
Barry if you would read Adam Smith's book (like you should've done in your first year of college) you would understand.
To anonymous 10:56...
You are WRONG.
Regardless of WordKyle being a bible thumping, Limbaugh loving, Conservative Republican, I care what WordKyle has to say regarding most political topics on Barry's Blog because, unlike you, WordKyle, USUALLY, substantiates his position with LEGITIMATE links.
I do not always agree with WordKyle's position but I do appreciate that his opinion is, USUALLY, based FACTS.
Next time you decide to CLAIM to represent the collective you should make certain you ACTUALLY represent the collective.
Ok let's recap Mzchiefs major points.
WRONG,USUALLY,LEGITIMATE,USUALLY,
FACTS,CLAIM,ACTUALLY.
I'll throw my .02 cents worth behind Wordkyle as well.
10:56 - here's something for you to think about later:
WK always sticks to his position.
He always provides linkable references.
He always presents his case in a fairly easy-to-understand manner.
He never talks down to folks and doesn't insults others
That's like a breath of fresh air when you're trying to wade through all the posters who don't make any sense, can't spell, punctuate, or construct a sentence.
Whenever I hear a doctor supporting socialized medicine...besides making a note not to go to him or her ...ever...I always make a point to ask them if we can cap their income at 90K...after all they don't need more than that...anything else is just greed...right? We can also move nurses into a government union and pay them like teachers. They shouldn't mind. And hospital administrators...35K tops.
Still want to promote socialized medicine?
To all - First, I don't know how or why I became a topic for discussion. Second, I do have a correction to a previous post. Careless math led me to conclude that the historical average rate of return for the stock market was 5.4%. That was incorrect. Stephen Moore, Director of Fiscal Policy Studies at the Cato Institute, testified to Congress in 1995 that historically, the average rate of return on stocks was 10%, and on bonds 6%.
To Xan @ 1131 - If one's memory was only of the last year, you would be correct. However, according to at least one study, if a wage earner born in 1970 had been able to invest his money in the stock market (instead of having it deducted into Social Security,) he would receive nearly six times the benefits he will receive under Social Security. Even with a 50% dip in the stock market, you still come out ahead.
Show me just one thing the US government runs efficiently and effectively; other than their mouth.
Social security
Medicare/Medicaid
FDIC
US Postal Service
Criminal Justice System
Education
Transportation
NASA
Foreign Relations
Now don't go confusing liberals with the facts..they get all worked up and do stupid stuff like vote in community activists as President.
How are we to discuss this intelligently when the original post is 75% flawed?
8 of the 12 things on your list are services provided at the state and local level, as it should be. The federal government has no constitutional authority for them or health care. If the citizens of any state want to give it a go, well, that's how it should be.
255 your post is flawed maybe even more. Don't matter the level of government to establish what is socialized or not. A city giving a business money as incentive sure does seem like something socialized to me. But perhaps, it is like organized religion. Conservative Rights just use the parts of the Bible that supports what they want. That other stuff in the Bible, the other cheek, love fellow man, do unto others, etc. can just go straight to hell if it does not fit what the conservative wants it to fit. That is the answer to those that do not think the highway system, sewer, water, law enforcement, military, etc. is not socialized. As far as the Social Security is concerned, what has been better that the Republicans have offered? Stock options, Ha Ha? I worked for a dude that made the megabucks. He said that there should not be any assistance to disabled or elderly folk from any government. Each family should just take care of their own. Wow. This is a good idea if all families were make a half mil a year like this ya-hoo. I know Limbaugh republicans that hate tax money being used to help somebody, but those same Republicans have someone in a state facility taking care of them for life. You go figure. Or maybe they are just plastic DittoHeads.
What about the star telegram article on the front page.It would lead one to beleive that the new attorney general is kicking ass;then as you read the (breaking news) youfind out that the huge sweep of drug smugglers happened over the last six months.what a deal.He wants to control guns to save mexico?BULLSHIT, anycountry that can ship thousand off tons off meth making drugs from china, process it ship it over here and sell it does not have any trouble importing guns. They just don't want the NAFTA trucks to have to dead head back. DAGO
7:59---
I guess you really are too damned stupid to understand the idea of a republic, where the powers constitutionally allocated to the central government are limited and all others left to the individual states.
So let me simplify this a little, since you apparently learned nothing from your public education.
If your state wants to implement a universal health care system, it is free to do so. If it does so and you don't like it, you are free to move to a state without such a system. Such is the nature of a republic as defined by our constitution.
As a test we should encourage a few states to try this while others keep a private sysem in place. If the system is a success then other states would obviously adopt similar systems. But if it is a failure you would not be permanently saddled with an unworkable nationwide clusterfork and all of its accompanying bureaucracy. This was the wisdom of our founding fathers, and you missed the entire concept but still think it's a good idea to tell me how wrong I am.
God help us, the cause is lost and with it a country that used to function and soon will look like all the other third world shit=holes where you don't want to live
"The Real Xanthippas": while without a doubt I am completely flattered and amused by the lengths you are willing to go to mock me (obsession is the sincerest form of flattery after all) you would be far more entertaining if you were a) right and b) funny. And anyway, why bag on D&D just to take a shot at me? If there's anything that can unite libtards and wingnuts, it's staying up late rolling dice, listening to metal music and eating cheetos, right?
9:30 If Obama follows the "universal health care"plan proposed in his campaign, insurance companies will be involved. The insurance companies and the employer have to be taken out of any universal health care plan, have a single payer system and ration health care. Hillary Clinton's plan should be used.
Since this is not being openly debated, we don't know how much we are going to pay and what payment will be based on.
Some changes coming out of the budget are changes in tax deductions for interest on mortgage home loan and reduction on charitable donations!
It is a radical agenda increasing the size of government by 30%.
Surprise, surprise, surprise, no one really thought he would raise taxes during a time of recession when more jobs are created by small business owners.
The only reason I can think the reason for not allowing charitable deductions is to force everyone to go to big government for help! They increased the budget for food stamps.
Oh and TRX...I forgot to say thanks for visiting. So, thanks!
Wow, you took that hook, line and sinker.
Two posts in reply even!
Hey, you're welcome! Any time.
I didn't want your one other visitor yesterday to be lonely.
So, come clean here. I was right on at at least some of those points, right? I't okay, no one is still reading this thread except you and I...
TRX
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