4.03.2007

Welcome To Communist Russia

Lots of buzz today about a proposed bill in the Texas Legislature that would require a doctor performing an abortion to ask a series of questions to his patient [Edit: and to report the answers to the government] that includes (click to enlarge):
More small Republican government?

37 comments:

wordkyle said...

The government stuck its nose into the abortion debate when the Supreme Court (incorrectly) ruled on Roe v. Wade.

As for the questions: Numbers 11-13 appear to be relevant for medical purposes (though I'm no doctor.)

Numbers 14-16 appear to involve how the doctor is going to be paid. That's the type of information EVERY patient provides -- at least those who pay for medical treatment.

Number 17 is a common question asked by almost every business: "How did you hear about us?"

You guys are way too sensitive about the whole "destroying the unborn child" thing. Is it possible that your objection is that it makes it inconvenient?

Anonymous said...

I wish the authors of the bill had been aborted.

ellis said...

barron, you are treading on thin ice with this. this whole issue is about terminating the life of an unborn child. this is legal up to the natural birthing process. how can this be right?

mzchief said...

It is RIDICULOUS for the government to mandate how a doctor treats a PATIENT seeking a LEGAL medical procedure.

Just wait, the raging right is coming after young minds of mush with their next attempt at DEMANDING the Big Book of Myths and Fables be taught in EVERY public school district in TEXAS. Click the LINK to read the story for yourself.

Radical Christians are NO different than radical Muslims. They BOTH are Hell bent on cramming down EVERYONE'S throat their group's particular brand of INSANITY.

Anonymous said...

And all of the liberals like mzchief want to cram their antigovernment, antireligous, antichristian, and anti-whatever beliefs down everybody elses throats.

Anonymous said...

If there were a "God", he kills far more unborn children each year than any nation that allows abortion ever could. Does this mean "heaven" is primarily populated by zygotes? Must be a strange place.

mzchief said...

To anonyNOTHING 8:36...
AHEM!
You madame/sir are QUITE mistaken, as a matter of fact you are stone cold, straight up, dead assed WRONG when you call ME a "liberal." (Yep! I sure did use a curse word.)

I actually believe the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have been a TREMENDOUS success, (note, not a SINGLE attack has occurred on US soil since the onset of EITHER war.) I am FOR tax cuts actually I am FOR a flat tax. I am PRO big business and do indeed BELIEVE in Reagan's "trickle down theory." Oh, and I believe that the ONLY people who have ANY business sucking the national teet are the elderly, TRULY disabled and those too young to work.

What pisses off YOU liberal haters is that I am NOT a raging right wing radical. Republicans are LOSING elections because they are catering to the raging right and ignoring the MODERATE swing vote.

I am a LIBERTARIAN who TRULY believes that government best serves the citizens of the United States when government stays out of the lives of U.S. citizens.

IF the Republicans nominate some hardcore radical Christian you can bet your last dime I will vote for a Democrat. Just to let you know, it WILL be the FIRST time I will have ever voted for a Democrat.

People like YOU are what makes it difficult for MODERATES like ME to vote Republican.

Good work, doofus! The Democrats are GLAD the Republican party has people like YOU.

Anonymous said...

Well, I finally can endorse Mzchief entirely. Abortion is a decision of the impregnated woman - period. Other people’s religion has no part in this. The fertilized egg is not a person. And we are certainly not in short supply of more humans. If the potential mother does not want to give birth, that is her choice. If you choose not to abort, that is your decision. Don't try to impose your choice (your religion) on others. If all else fails, try doing unto others as you would have them do unto you.

wordkyle said...

mzchief, your stated opinion comparing "radical" Christians to radical Muslims reflects an ignorant and pathetic point of view. You use a horrendous overstatement to try to validate an indefensible position.

When was the last time a "radical" Christian beheaded an enemy? Where is the Christian equivalent of sharia law, which punishes the woman for being raped, and allows a husband to beat his wife with impugnity? Where are the Christian protesters displaying their intent to take over the world? Where are the Christians glorifying terrorist crimes?

Christians have the right to convince people of the value of their beliefs. The Christian faith -- alone among major religions -- has been singled out for persecution by Liberals for the last forty years.

The concept of "moral relativism" fits the Liberal ideology perfectly: never having to say your sorry.

God forbid that we should make destroying the unborn "too inconvenient."

Anonymous said...

Wordkyle - are you serious? Have you actually read your bible? What about all those passages where biblical armies assaulted a city and then "killed all living things" - that included men, women, children AND their animals. How about the requirement to put to death children who talk back to their parents? How about offering up wives, children and servants to be raped to put off aggressive crowds? Do I need to cite verses? If you know the book that drives your life you should know all of them. If not, you just don't know what you're talking about.

wordkyle said...

9:56: Check your evening news. They're not reporting alleged events from 2000 years ago.

P.S. The Bible doesn't run my life.

Anonymous said...

wordkyle, in reference to your 6:32PM post: It is disingenuous to state "at least those who pay for medical treatment." Do you have insurance? Then you don't pay the true cost. There are millions of Americans (born here; not those "evil foreigners") that do not have health insurance. They have to pay full cost, usually more than a insurance company has to pay for the exact same procedure.

Anonymous said...

Wordkyle, Your post seems to me to take the position that Christianity has some moral superiority over other religions. The bible is the basis of that religion. Is it not for you?

I, as a Liberal, violently disagree with the aggressive aspects of the Muslim religion just as I object to those same aspects of Christianity. Don't you see the similarities? Both religions (along with Judaism) are based in fear. Fear of other infidels and of God's wrath. Beheading is a nasty, but quick (and humane?) death. Christians have used that technique with the guillotine and axe for centuries. But maybe you prefer burning at the stake or the electric chair or firing squads?

Hypocrisy is the hallmark of small minds.

wordkyle said...

7:28, a doctor's office needs payment information. That was my point.

Thousands, if not millions, of "no pay" customers hit the emergency rooms of hospitals for medical treatment of colds and other non-emergency maladies. Hospitals are required to see and treat them.

And by the way, insured people DO "pay." Insurance companies exist because of that fact. Insured people who do not use the services bear the burden of those who use it a lot. However, it's a contract that they enter by choice, not by coercion or force (as opposed to socialized "universal" health care.)

Anonymous said...

I think the point is that our government is building more big databases about our lives. How can any Republican, Libertarian, or Democrat be for this?

wordkyle said...

9:31, "Christians have used...the guillotine and axe for centuries. But maybe you prefer burning at the stake or the electric chair or firing squads"

Read or re-read my post from last night. The last time a beheading (or burning at the stake, etc) in the name of Christianity was...when? 500 years ago?

Now read Google news for examples of sharia law happening today. (You sure won't see those headlines in the American mainstream media.)

Comparisons of "radical" Christians with radical Muslims are weak and simple-minded. Islam as it is practiced today is violent, belligerent and hate-mongering.

Gleemonex said...

>Where are the Christian protesters displaying their intent to take over the world? Where are the Christians glorifying terrorist crimes?

They're at every single pro-Bush, pro-Iraq-war rally or gathering, wordkyle. And incidentally, if you're dismissing Anon 9:56's comment as "alleged events from 2000 years ago," then doesn't that mean you're one of those grocery-store Christians, picking what you like off the shelf and leaving the stuff you don't? Either the whole book is the Word of God, or it isn't.

And way to make this debate about health insurance -- the item posted is about a grievous level of intrusion by government into ordinary citizens' lives. Your hospital intake form will ask the relevant HEALTH-BASED questions (number of births previous, etc.), and the insurance/payment for THIS PROCEDURE is handled by the billing department, and it's NOBODY'S FRICKIN BUSINESS how you've paid for medical services in the past.

Pseudonym said...

Sorry I am late joining this debate but the line up in the office of my Canadian socialist doctor was over 2 hours and there was no express line open this morning. To make things worse the Muslim doctor I have been assigned to fell behind because he took frequent prayer breaks. The nurses are on strike so I had to draw my own blood to send to the lab. Whew! So what we were talking about? Oh yes abortions. I'm for them and the govennment should stick their noses out of this stuff.

anonymouse said...

wordkyle..are you the new crack dealer on the blog?
you gotta quit smoking your own shit, bitch.

mzchief said...

To Wordkyle...
YOU are either a MORON or RETARDED.

Boys and girls I hope you have packed your lunches because THIS will take awhile.

1. U. S. Blue Laws/Lord's Day Law 1672-2007 To this day retailers and auto dealerships must maintain hours in accordance with Blue Laws.

2. Colossians 3:18: Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. Radical Christians STILL believe this is “God’s Will.”

3. Eric Rudolph a member of the RADICAL Christian Identity organization bombed abortion clinics, a gay bar and Centennial Olympic Park between the years 1996-1998 all in the name of Christian love.

4. David Koresh was the leader of the Branch Davidians and decided as a RADICAL Christian he was ABOVE the laws of man and would answer ONLY to God on April 19, 1993.

5. Jim Jones was the head of the RADICAL Christian People’s Temple and decided it was God’s plan and that he and nearly 1200 people would better serve God by committing suicide November 18, 1978

6. Rule of Thumb Law 1692-1976 “A man may legally beat his wife, provided that he used a stick no thicker than his thumb. “ based upon the Christian ethic that it is a man’s duty and right to beat his wife.

7. Women were DENIED the right to vote in the U.S. until the ratification of the 19th Amendment on August 18, 1920 because Christians believed women were to be “silent” based upon this little ditty 1 Corinthians 14:35: - for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

8. Salem Witch Trials 1692 People were burned and hung because they were ACCUSED of practicing witchcraft, heresy and blasphemy.

9. Spanish Inquisition 1478 -1834 Basic pissing and moaning about WHICH Big Book of Myths and Fables is the CORRECT book resulting in Tens of THOUSANDS of people being tortured and murdered.

10. Protestant Reformation 1414-1579 Basic pissing and moaning about WHICH Big Book of Myths and Fables is the CORRECT book resulting in Tens of THOUSANDS of people being tortured and murdered.

11. Emperor Alexius I asked for aid from Pope Urban II for help against the growing Muslim population who were refusing to convert to Christianity and pay taxes
to Rome. Papal Crusades were conducted between 1095-1291. Of course, other well-meaning radical Christians took it upon themselves to continue with Crusades against Muslims until as late as 1456. Yep, that is RADICAL Christians spending 350 years to travel to the far side of the planet to MURDER people because Muslims RUFUSE to read the Christian Big Book of Myths and Fables.

I doubt if you know this wee bit of FACTUAL information but the greatest darshanim/sermonizer of the Jewish world, Rabbi Moshe Alshich served as a member of the rabbinical council of Safed in the 1500’s LONG ago declared
the "Old Testament" to be ALLEGORICAL and NOT Historical. I realize that FACT may not mean much to someone
like YOU however, it is of TREMENDOUS import because the JEWS wrote the "Old Testament" and ORIGINALLY
promulgated it under the name "TORAH". Incidentally, the definition of ALLEGORY is "story telling". A synonym of
ALLEGORY is "FABLE" an antonym (word meaning opposite) of ALLEGORY is ”FACT”.

I realize this has been a long and detailed list of SOME of the HORRIFIC things RADICAL and MAINSTREAM Christians have done throughout the past THOUSAND years but it does indeed PROVE the point that RADICAL Christians wear the mantal of BRUTALITY and INTOLERANCE just as well as RADICAL Muslims.

Tell me Hot Shot, WHICH Big Book of Myths and Fables would you like taught in Public Schools, the Douay-Rheims or King James?

Let me give you a CLUE, Wordkyle, YOU have just been OWNED. In the future shut up and THINK about what you say and to WHOM prior to saying it and maybe even YOU will refrain from looking like a TOTAL schmuck! Abraham Lincoln said;
”'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.”


PERHAPS the next time YOU challenge someone to an intellectual gunfight YOU will bring something more than a penknife.

You’re Welcome.

Anonymous said...

Jasper, Texas comes to mind about a right-wingnut beheading.

Anonymous said...

Mzchief, you are my hero! Thank You!

Anonymous said...

Mzchief - thanks for the post. Several on this subject have expressed some true enlightenment for Wise Co. Maybe there is hope!

I agree (to a degree) with Wordkyle about some of the evils of Islam as dictated in some Mid East countries. However, these same excess are what the dangerously increasing right-wing fundamentalists want in this country. We must vigorously resist their religious over-simplification if our intellectual freedom and independence is to be preserved.

wordkyle said...

MZChief, not even a good try. Unlike your deranged and scattered post, I'll keep my answer short and orderly.

1) Rudolph, Koresh and Jones were crazed individuals with charisma (similar to Bill Clinton.) They did not represent any Christian movement, and all were soundly condemned by all mainstream Christian leaders for violating the spirit of Christianity. Where is the corresponding Muslim condemnation of terrorism?

2) Most blue laws have been repealed, and limited Sunday sales and activiites are more often observed out of tradition and respect, rather than law.

3) Numbers 2, 6 & 7 from your BIG BOOK OF LISTS IN BOLDFACE AND ALL CAPS refer to ancient traditions, not current practices. You've been reading "The Da Vinci Code" again, haven't you? (P.S. The "Rule of Thumb" laws have been debunked as a hoax perpetuated in, and by, feminist literature.)

4) The examples of Christian atrocities, while indefensible, are from 650 years ago to nearly 200 years ago. Islamic atrocities are as recent as today's headlines. Rough equivalents? uh, no

Now, regarding your attempt to insult me. I'll let other people decide if your posts are rambling, erratic and look like a homemade ransom note. But please, please, PLEASE don't ever make the mistake of thinking you're superior to me, intellectually or morally.

That misjudgment is, as are all of your opinions, wrong on all counts.

wordkyle said...

gleemonex, sorry I didn't respond to your post earlier, but other distractions screamed for my attention.

1) What makes you think I'm a Christian at all? Have I ever said that?

2) The Bible can be accepted in several ways: 1) It's the word of God, written by God; 2) It's the word of God, dictated to men; 3) It's Man's interpretation of the word of God; 4) It's an accurate series of historical events; 5) It's a series of stories, parables and tales. 6) It's an amalgam of all of these.

Whichever theory a person has regarding the Bible's origins has little to do with his or her faith. The Bible is what it is and a person accepts the spirit or doesn't.

Unfortunately for you, most Christians -- or those who defend Christianity -- refuse to let anti-Christian oppressors define what their beliefs "should be" or "should be" based on.

Gleemonex said...

Lookit wordkyle, throwin down the Big-Brain gauntlet! Anybody for whom "Bill Clinton BAD!" is the eternal argument-ending QED doesn't even register on the scale of intellectual aptitude.

You asked for examples, Mzchief gave you some -- with cites, which I notice you rarely provide for your own scattershot arguments. You never keep your comments relevant to the subject of Barry's posts -- you just decide which Republican talking point to attack with first, and then start chucking in so many handfuls of straw-man arguments that it looks like a scarecrow died in here.

Do you want to talk about the government's grievous level of intrusion into ordinary citizens' lives (as illustrated by Barry's original post), or not?

mzchief said...

To Wordkyle...
Lame attempt DOOFUS. Where are your links to substantiate YOUR bogus claims? YOU are as big a blowhard as EVERY other pompous raging rightwing religious NUT. Just because you say something it does not make it so, even if IGNORANT people believe your dreck.

The mere fact I substantiated my claims with documentation PROVES my intellectual superiority.

YOU have indeed been bested and LACK the moral integrity to acknowledge such.

I learned a long time ago only a fool argues with an idiot and I am NOT about to act the fool with an idiot such as you. I am affording you the courtesy of thinking you a fool rather than a LIAR.

I have ignored your ridiculous rants in the past and I will continue to do so in the future. YOU are a waste of MY time.

********************************

Ladies and Gentlemen...

Click the links and you will see the FACTS. Oh wait, Wordkyle does not have links. There you go!

Here are links to substantiate my prior claims in which I did not include links because the topics are considered COMMON knowledge.

Blue Law
As recently as March 2006, Texas judges were still ruling to uphold the state Blue Law that requires car dealerships to close one day each weekend. They must now choose to open either Saturday or Sunday.

Southern Baptist Convention 2006 mission statement declaring that women submit to their husbands in section VXIII The Family.

Rule of Thumb - State v Rhodes, 1868 61 N.C. 453 The defendant was NOT found guilty because he had used a stick NO thicker than his thumb to beat his wife.

Christian Ethics Today has an excellent article on the Christian Church’s position AGAINST the 19th Amendment and fought it being ratified in 1920.

Eric Rudolph was able to elude capture for more than FIVE YEARS because of the assistance he was granted by RADICAL Christian organizations throughout the Appalachian wilderness.

BEWARE of pompous charlatans like Wordkyle and read the LINKS and decide for YOURSELF.

STOP BEING SHEEPLE & THINK for YOURSELVES!

mzchief said...

Christian Ethics Today

Somehow I buggered up the prior link and it did not work.

anonymouse said...

I think you...have been owned...bitch...
team mzchief 1
team dumbass 0

Anonymous said...

Way to represent, MZChief! wordkyle is so arrogant, self-righteous, and egotistical, he will never admit that you slam-dunked him, but I will. YOU SLAMMED HIM. I consider myself neutral on this topic, but based on the arguments presented here, MZChief WINS. It's always fun to see self-righteous people like wordkyle take a hit (although he will never admit he took a hit - of that I'm sure.)

HHL said...

If I may be permitted an ON-topic comment:

As pointed out by Gleemonex, the idea behind Barry's post appears to be that Republicans are only advocates of "less government intrusion" when it suits their purposes (in this case, a moral-religious purpose that arguably has no place whatsoever in government).

In response to wordkyle's original post:

Numbers 11-13 may in fact be relevant medical questions, but if so, a competent doctor will ask them without any governmental directive. In any event, it serves no medical purpose whatsoever for the responses to these questions to be reported to the government.

Numbers 14-16 may in fact be relevant financial questions to determine how the doctor is going to be paid, but if so, the doctor or the clinic will, without any governmental directive, ask them in the event that they are concerned about the method of payment or if, indeed, they are concerned about being paid at all. In any event, it serves no legitimate financial purpose whatsoever for the responses to these questions to be reported to the government.

Number 17 may in fact be relevant to determine how the patient came to be a customer of the doctor or clinic for purposes of determining the effectiveness of marketing or advertising efforts, but if so the doctor or clinic will ask it without any governmental directive. In any event, it serves no legitimate purpose whatsoever for the response to this question to be reported to the government.

The reasons given by wordkyle are pretenses. Nothing more, nothing less.

wordkyle said...

Hi kids, I didn't know we changed this to the "link" game. Okay.

First: MZChief, truly, your intellect is dazzling. Because you keep saying so.

BLUE LAWS From MZChief's own LINK Regarding those horrendous Blue Laws: "In some cases these laws were created or retained with the support of those whom they affected, to allow them a day off each week without fear of their competitors still being open." (PS, my earlier post, said "most" blue laws, etc.)

WIFE SUBMITTING, ETC From MZChief's own LINK "The husband and wife are of equal worth before God, since both are created in God's image. The marriage relationship models the way God relates to His people. A husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. He has the God-given responsibility to provide for, to protect, and to lead his family." (Sounds terrible for the wife, huh?)

RULE OF THUMB From MZChief's own LINK "The laws of this State do not recognize the right of the husband to whip his wife;" "It will be observed that the ground upon which we have put this decision is not that the husband has the right to whip his wife much or little; but that we will not interfere with family government in trifling cases. We will no more interfere where the husband whips the wife than where the wife whips the husband; and yet we would hardly be supposed to hold that a wife has a right to whip her husband." Two things: 1) The "thumb" reference was a measurement, not a rule to follow; and 2) The case was more about privacy than anything else. (PS: You reference a case from 150 years ago??)

ERIC RUDOLPH and the "assistance" Christian organizations provided him -- From MZChief's own LINK: "The neutrality of this article is disputed" and "Rudolph had the assistance of sympathizers" and "he was harbored by supporters." No mention of "Christian" support. Regarding the one "radical Christian" group mentioned in the article, "In a statement released after he entered a guilty plea, Rudolph denied being a supporter of the Christian Identity movement, claiming that his involvement amounted to a brief association with the daughter of a Christian Identity adherent."

You guys were right, she DID provide good links. Too bad she didn't bother to read them.

mzchief said...

Ladies and Gentlemen...

Please read the links for YOURSELVES. Wordkyle has done some ahhhh...uhhhh...CREATIVE editing with regard to his quotes from the links.

OBVIOUSLY I was mistaken in ONLY assessing Wordkyle to be an IDIOT. Wordkyle is BOTH an IDIOT and a LIAR who believes YOU too are IDIOTS.

wordkyle said...

"creative editing"? They're your links! I didn't change the words or the meaning of the citations.

Yes, folks, please read the links for yourselves. MZChief's argument has degenerated into simply calling me names. Classy.

Like all Liberals, she thinks if she screams LOUDER and LONGER than anyone else, she's won the argument. 'Tain't so and 'tweren't never so.

MZChief, simply show where I misrepresented either the words or the meaning of the citations to YOUR links in my previous post.

Otherwise you're just the joke everyone else has always said you are.

Anonymous said...

Everyone in favor of abortion wasn't aborted. So far, no aborted people have been able to weigh in with their opinions on the subject. When that happens, we'll have an informed debate, and not hypocrisy vs. holy rollers. P.S. Wouldn't "God" be the world's most prolific aborter?

Pseudonym said...

Wow and to think these posts are being moderated.

Anonymous said...

Uhhh... Make that 2 for Team Mzchief.