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7.25.2006
Get Out Your Ethical Dilemma Meter
The Star-Telegram has a story of a 13 year old in Dubin, Texas who was allegedly raped in May. One month later she decides to consider an abortion and, this is where is gets tricky, a Dubin police officer drove the girl and her family to the clinic purportedly "to collect any remains as evidence."
The police chief is catching heat.
A couple of quotes:
- "We want to know whether the Dublin police are in the abortion business."
- "If we didn't take them, they might wind up having the abortion in a back room at somebody's home, and the victim might suffer even more," the chief said.
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108 comments:
I am mixed on this one.
Evidence of what? That she was pregnant? You can prove that otherwise, through tests, etc. That she was assaulted? In most cases of sexual assault, I would assume a discarded fetus is not exhibit A. So that can be proven otherwise as well. So there really is no basis for collecting the discard as evidence for anything.
Why does God allow girls so young to be physically mature and ready for having babies? Seems in contrast to what makes sense.
I'm assuming this evidence was collected in order to prove the alleged assaulter was the father.
I think this was definitely the right solution for this young girl, although, I'm not sure the police should have taken her.
DUBLIN POLICE/TAXI SERVICE
An abortion is a legal medical procedure. Deal with it! However, since when does ANY police department act as a taxi service for the poor, regardless of the family’s destination?
If law enforcement required in an attempt to prove the paternity of the fetus any genetic material that might have been collected as the result of a medical procedure involving the victim of a sexual assault I would imagine IF there was a concern about maintaining the integrity of the chain of custody of the possible evidence arrangements would be made for law enforcement to take custody of the genetic material. That would NOT require an officer to transport the victim to the clinic.
Furthermore, IF the victim’s family could not afford or provide transportation to the clinic how would they have been able to afford the $350.-$400. fee for an abortion?
Unless it is established departmental policy for police to provide transportation for indigents to and from medical appointments Dublin Police Department screwed up.
She should have been given the morning after pill, which many are trying to make illegal and/or extremely hard to obtain. Then this whole unfortunate incident would never have happened.
Just assume the family was involved in the pregnancy. Do you think the culprit is going to take daughter in for the abortion? The poor girl probably needed a police escort for her own protection. A girl this young should not be having sex and certainly should not be having babies. To me this is a clear case for justified abortion.
Has her rapist been jailed? Or is that county like this one, where rape isn't a big deal? ( according to our DA's practices.)
Come on Barry, leave this up...people do have their opinions of our DA's malfeasance of office!
But did she have a old fashioned Dr Pepper after the procedure? Always makes me feel better.
I agree with TxSharon ...
The morning after pill would have been perfect in this situation.
And I do not agree with the "Mud Slinging" at our Wise County D.A's office. From what I can see they are putting them away as fast as they can with what they have to work with ...
This would have been great if it was in Runaway bay, The fired officer who's Dad is Sheriff in jack County could have got her knocked up and then took her for the abortion
People don't have abortions in back rooms any more - this is a stupid excuse.
NO, there is no reason to get the aborted fetus. Why would paternity evidence be necessary? There is no baby. And if this man committed a crime, the proof is elsewhere. And if for some reason there was a question as to who the father is...that puts a whole new light on it. As for the comment that a girl that young should not be having sex or babies, so true. Unfortunately, God (or nature, whichever is your thing) thinks otherwise.
Ahem...
As stated in the article which I am certain each and every person who has elected to comment has read: "Gary Cehand, 29, of Dublin, a convicted burglar, is jailed in Erath County facing a possible charge of aggravated sexual assault,..." Also stated is the fact that "Dublin police drove the girl from a belated rape examination to a Fort Worth Planned Parenthood abortion clinic." on June 23. Due to the fact, it is alleged that May is when the rape occurred it would have been both inappropriate and ineffective to have administered Emergency Contraception at the time of the belated rape examination. Emergency Contraception must be administered within 72 hours of unprotected sexual intercourse as a viable means of preventing pregnancy by either delaying ovulation or preventing implantation by causing an early menstrual cycle.
As is the case with many sexual crimes involving children or minors, the event is not reported until quite some time after the commission of the offense, this could very likely have been one of those times.
collectionsite is absolutely correct, if you have a problem with the DA's office, stop the "mud-slinging" and do something about it that might effect the change YOU want to achieve.
very well said mzchief.
All you that are talking about young girls having sex need to remember that this isn't about sex, it about rape. As the examination wasn't until June, there likely is no DNA evidence except the fetus. Therefore, they need the fetus as evidence of who the guy was that raped her.
As for God not allowing young girls to conceive babies... many years ago, when folks only lived to be 30 or 40, they married young and had children young. Otherwise, they may not live long enough to raise their kids. But, I don't know how to defend this argument in the times of Methusala (I know, I don't know how to spell it and don't have a Bible with me).
This poor child, how overwhelmed she must be..I am so glad that abortion was an option for her and she did not have to go through 9 months of agony and the pain of birth to deliver a rapist's baby. At 13 you should just be getting to wear make-up not dealing with rape and abortion. If the only way for her to get to the clinic was for the police to take her...then their time and our tax dollars were well spent. She should not have to pay for the criminal acts of some sick sex offender --she has already paid enough. This is why I can't be anti abortion. She and her family made a difficult decision and I am glad that she had the choice.
So, we are saying special case abortion?
As stated in the article, "The girl decided not to have an abortion."
But, you may think in some cases it would be apropriate to do so?
anon 9:05 Abortion is a legal medical procedure? I beg to differ! Abortion is legal murder!
You can say whatever you want but when you abort a a Fetus it is a baby!
Its funny how people in the USA can abort babies all day long and say the mother has a legal right to do what she wants to do!
I remember yrs ago a farmer in this county, his wife was dying and he was taking care of her 24/7
so his pigs didn't get fed, someone turn him in! They wanted to put in jail etc.. for mistreatment of his pigs, you can go to jail for mistreatment of your pets! But you have a right to abort your baby? What's wrong with this picture?
2:22 - SHUT UUUUUUPPPPP
2:22 what is your opinion when a 13 year old is raped and becomes pregnant, let's say it was her father who raped her. Would you expect this child to have the incestious child that will probably have extreme birth defects? Would you expect this child to care for this disabled child for the rest of her life? I'm talking about a hypothetical situation. What is your solution to this problem?
So are we saying its ok to abort on a special case?
Anon 2:32 I will tell you my opinion when you answer these two questions. Is it alright for a woman to abort a baby. Question #2 Do you have the right to starve your pets?
I'm not Anon 2:32, but I will answer your questions 3:00 p.m.- Is it alright for a woman to abort her baby? I'm not sure if it's "alright," but it is her right.
Do you have the right to starve your pets? No, but you do have the right to abort them before they are born.
3:12 thanks...3:00 Why does it not surprise me that you will not give me a straight answer. Again 3:00 what is your solution to my question?
So Mary Mack It's ok to murder! But its not ok to starve your pets! I didn't say kill your pets just starve them for a while!
Wow what does that say about Us! You can murder a baby! But don't starve your pets!
The Bible says in Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the creator!
How do you change the truth? God says not to murder! But you say it is ok to murder, but not starve yuour pets? So you put more value on a pet than a human life?
Why don't you discuss religion at bible study instead of the blog. Better yet find a religious blog and let us sinners be!
Anon 3:17 So you want me to give you a Hypothetical answer?
Answer my question like I said then I will answer yours
Im not talking about religion!
3:23 Yes it is your right to do what you think is best for you...remember, I'm addressing the rape/pregnancy of a 13 yr. old. Of course you don't have the right to starve your animals....puzzling question. Now would you please answer my question, it's a simple question. Stop the stupidity and answer my question, I answered yours!
Excellent answer 3:12! When the fetus can survive without the mother than it is murder. Until then it is no more an individual than a zit on your face.
anon 2:32 Give us some facts about your hypothetical question! Anybody can come up with that load of bull
3:20- Umm, if you re-read my post I believe I said:
I'm not sure if it's ALRIGHT, but it is her right.
Oh, and way to stand up for what you believe by remaining anonymous, but hey, that's your right!
3:28... You might want to reread my post, but to sum it up for you...A 13 year old child is raped by her biological father. Should she have the ability to abort. JEEEEZE, what's so hard to understand about that?
Why, yes that 13 year old girl should have to carry the fetus to term and then have to decide whether to keep it. It is only right I mean she is just a female and she is carrying some man's baby. Her life isn't important --It doesn't matter that her body will never be the same or that she may have wanted to play softball next spring rather than give birth. Too bad! How can anyone not possibly want her to have the choice of whether or not to carry. And the government certianly isn't the one that should get to make THAT decision.
2:22 if you or your daughter were the victim--wouldn't you at least want the option?
2:22...I answered you, please give me the curtesy of answering mine
When does a clump of cells become a "baby?" When does a fetus cease being a parasite (it cannot survive without its host)?
No different from removing a cyst from your body. Masturbation is legal murder. Menstruation is legal murder. Think about all those potential babies going down the drain.
It also begs the question: since most pregnancies end before the women even knows it, is heaven populated mostly with zygotes?
Before you start in with "You'll only understand when you have kids!!!" stow it. I have four.
ANON 3:32
Duh, I would think that it would be considered incest. Surely, you have some morals and think that is wrong. Yes, she should be able to abort.
Let me answer your hypothetical question ( hypothetical meaning)
imagined or suggested but not necessarily real or true.
So the question you are asking has no truth to back it up! Give me facts!!!!!!!
I can come up with lots of hypothetical answers!
But lets deal with truth! O maybe you cannot handle the truth
What a sad world we live in! When we can murder everyday and its your right! But you don't have the right to starve your pets?
SO answer this question? What you are saying is that pet has more rights than a baby?
3:40 of course I think she has that right, but I am asking 2:22 what their opinion is and she's doesn't want to answer...interesting
I don't believe in abortion as a form of birth control. However I think in extreme cirmcumstances such as this that abortion is definitely an option. This 13 year old girl did not ask for this. It's not like she was out sleeping around and got pregnant. She was raped! There is a difference. She choose to have the baby and I wish her and her family the best of luck. I personally don't agree with abortion but it is a freedom in this country.
3:40 do you know about the birds and the bees? I am afraid you don't. You wrote "Masturbation is legal murder. Menstruation is legal murder." Helloooo -the sperm and eggs are not intermingled during masturbation and menustration. No embryo is formed. It is scary that some people have the ability to reproduce.
So lets get this right you say it is ok for a woman to kill her baby!
3:49...who are you typing to?
Abortion ( a premature death)
Fetus ( mean's filled with young)
3:49 No it is not alright for a woman to kill her baby. We are not talking about a woman, we are talking about at 13 year old child! She choose to have the baby but even if she didn't who could blame her for having an abortion when she was raped at 13. She has suffered enough for this. Could you have raised a child at 13? Probably not! If her parent's can't afford transportation to the abortion clinic how are they going to help her support a baby?
2:22..I do believe that you haven't answered my question. I wonder why.
Some of you are just being asinine.
3:43 #1- No,a pet does not have more rights than a baby. You were referring to an unborn baby, and yes, the mother does have the right to abort her child. Now after the baby is born, she does not have the right to stop feeding the child. And yes, it seems a living animal does have more rights than a fetus. I didn't say that was right, but that's the way it is.
I don't know who you are wanting to answer the question but I think that if a 13 year old is raped by her father then she should definitely have an abortion. It would be in the best interest of the baby. Incest can cause serious birth defects not to mention the emotional trauma of knowing that his grandfather is also his father.
anon 3:59 I did answer your question! Give me a question that has some facts to it ok! Not this hypothetical bull! I have asked you a few times but you seem not to have a question to ask with facts to back it up
4:09.. All I was asking was what was your opinion re: the hypothetical situation. I'm not sure what you mean by "seem not to have a question to ask with facts to back it up". Hypothetical situations are not based on facts, thus HYPOTHETICAL. I think it's great to be an American where we are allowed to make our own decisions regarding our bodies. I think you might be a little touchy today, maybe it's the heat.
or maybe you've asked the same question over and over
3:47PM, the point being it is a potential life. A clump of cells is no guarantee that they will make it to full-term. Just like a group of sperm or egg is a potential baby.
There are much more pregnancies that never are detected or go past the clump of cells stage. Who is killing them then? How dare they!!
your sick when you think its ok to take a life, that life has rights at all, but if you starve a pet, not to its death but strave it you don't have that right what logic is that?
4:18 It is pertinant to this thread of the blog. I'm done, you guys type it out and may the best poster win. Peace out!
Do we know if the 13 yr old girl made the decision regarding abortion (to have one or not) herself? Or did her parents make the decision for her, or heavily influence her decision? And is a 13 yr old capable of making that kind of life altering decision?
4:22 a 13 year old is no more capable of making that decision than she is of raising a baby
Cluepatrol you need to get a clue!!!
Somebody please tell me where the starving pets come into this discussion and how that has anything to do with rape and abortion.
Good Question Anon 4:32
4:32 & 4:41- I was also wondering that, but I just answered the question like a good little pupil
TO SERVE AND PROTECT.....
I am glad you answered it but they are asking it over and over. To me there is no comparison between having an abortion and starving a dog.
AMEN
OMG!!!!!!!!!! I just got on here for the day...68 comments!!!!!!
I'm brain dead - not gonna attempt to read all of these!
To anon 2:22:
I understand your opinion, but it is your OPINION. I don't agree with abortion, but that doesn't give me the right to infringe upon someone else. The laws in this country allow abortion, therefore, it IS NOT illegal. I could never consider having an abortion, but I couldn't say what I'd do in the same situation as this 13 yr old girl.
To compare this to starving an animal; well, that's just ridiculus.
I'd like to hear from some of the aborted people on this whole issue. It seems we only hear from people who were not aborted.
Well duh 6:11!!!
OH MY!
First and foremost; according to the Supreme Court of the United States it is perfectly LEGAL for a female to undergo an abortion REGARDLESS of the circumstances at the time of conception.
A few facts for those who have elected to forego intellect in order to judge and condemn.
Approximately 11 hours after an oocyte is fertilized it becomes a zygote. Within the next 72 hours, the zygote becomes a blastocyst wherein it continues its cystic development until day 12. Upon implantation within the uterus, the blastocyst becomes an embryo and remains as an embryo until between WEEKS 9 and 10 at which time the embryo develops into a fetus. Between weeks, 39 and 40 the fully developed fetus is considered a baby. Of course this is IF everything goes as planned.
Incidentally, a fetus is TRULY viable and has a realistic chance of surviving outside the uterus at week 28.
My point being, NO ONE can LEGALLY "kill" a BABY!
As for whether or not abortion of a human embryo or fetus is, murder has already been determined by the United States Supreme Court. Whether or not abortion is MORAL is another question. However, since I am discussing rights and laws afforded to citizens of the United States, what is and is not moral is a choice to made by and for each adult for themselves and NO ONE has the right to foist THEIR moral decisions on another person, ESPECIALLY when the person doing the foisting will not have to endure the consequences of the foisted moral decision.
Just to add a bit of fuel to the fire: IF abortion is truly, "murder" then why is it less evil/immoral/wrong to "murder" an embryo or fetus that has birth defects, is a threat to the life of the mother or was conceived during rape or incest. Face it, IF life begins at conception then it is "murder" to kill an embryo or fetus because the “baby's” father is a jerk or the “baby” is a danger to the mother or a potential inconvenience to society and itself because of its defects.
Pssssssttttt anonyNOTHING 2:22…
I NEVER post as “anonymous.”
As for the doofus who compared the treatment of animals to the care of babies: go next door and have your 10-year-old neighbour explain why that was one of the most moronic statements you could make in an attempt to foist your standards on to other people. Oh, right, it was anonyNOTHING 2:22 who made that inane argument.
Mzchief - that have me tirehead
Mudslinging? ha! You people are so amusing. One makes a comment about an elected official not doing a job, and it is MUDSLINGING? You must all be relatives.
If RAPISTS were PUNISHED and not allowed PROBATION, this discussion might not even have to take place. Ever think about that? No..No...let's deal with the after effects and debate those... nevermind stopping the rapists! Lunatics.
I have just read thru this rediculous thread of what came first the chicken or the egg...
Just want to point one thing out.
Abortion has always been an issue -because of religous beliefs. Thus to ask the question 'who's God is in support of the individual making the choice?' Your God or My God?
Freedom of Choice - that is what we are all about as Americans; whether it be politics, religion, lives are at stake - We use the Electric Chair to KILL those that have comitted crime. Is it right to kill someone for killing someone else? I don't want to get off the beaten path here, but the bottom line is 'FREEDOM OF CHOICE'
If a women chooses abortion - that is her right...if she has a very good doctor...then it is between the doctor and her and nobody even has to know. Let it go....now~~!!
I choose not to get into the abortion debate, but
This should have never been splattered all over the news. This is a child's tragedy not an abortion debate, between the police and the catholics. We need to remember this is being done at this little girls expense.
It is so hard to keep up with a conversation when everybody is "anonymous"! It's maddening..
mzchief is so smart makes me stupider.
Is she trying to baffle us with her brilliance or dazzle us with B.S.?
Can ya smell it, hey, you can smell it. Its bull #@^*.
7:21.. What official are you referring to? Mudsling, I'm afraid you have been reading the wrong thread, my friend.
Elle- Check 9:53 a.m. It was brief, but there was mudslinging.
12:09... I stand corrected, thanks
From what I have seen mschief is a no bullshit kind of gal. Ya'll are pissed because she makes you look like a bunch of idiots.
No she doesn't make me look like an idiot. I have 2 college degrees. I think I am fairly knowledgable. Anyone can copy and paste from the encyclopedia. Not real impressive.
Excuse me, Im not an idiot,Im stupid. She cant just say a few word's she has to bore you to death with big word's and a list of fact's that loose themselves after about 30 minutes. Just my opinion.
I agree and all of the text in bold is annoying. Say what you need to say without all of the babbling.
This is the definition of the word stupid from Merrism Webster online dictionary. a: slow of mind : OBTUSE b : given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner c : lacking intelligence or reason. Please explain why you have such low self esteem of yourself?
Thank you elle, I will now change my name to morone.
I agree, why does she do all that, just a simple answer will do.
I think the wants to impress us, it just gives me tirehead. I skip right over her post.
You are welcome stu--morone.
Wow, I just got in on this. Abortion will be debated form now until the end of time. Those on either side will never agree. Personally, I believe that there are way too many prospective parents who want a child and abortion is wrong...have the child and give it to people who would love it. However, having said that, if my child were raped...I don't know what I would do and neither do any of you who take such a firm stand. Howver, I do believe more often than not, abortion is used as a means of birth control...it's an issue that I feel very strongly about, but in this case or even in the case of incest...I'm extremely torn.
Hey "and your point is" - (reference to your 11:14 post)
Comment4u can help you identify anons.
..ESP, Barry cronie, heck I don't know.
..but wish I did.
OMGOSH Barry - 96 Posts
Is it a record?
WOW!
I had NO idea I was such a topic of conversation.
Thank you.
Incidentally, complaining about someone using big words and too many facts says far more about the intellect of the person complaining than the person about whom they are complaining.
Yea, I know that will keep a few of you stumped for a VERY long while.
Cheers!
OOOPPSSS!
Almost forgot anonyNOTHING 1:09..
IF you were indeed double degreed you would know that my facts are NOT copied and pasted from ANY text. MOST people who have actually acquired a degree are able to discern whether someone has gathered and compiled information or plagiarized a document. However, congratulations to you for not only knowing of an encyclopedia but double kudos for you for knowing how to correctly spell encyclopedia.
Of course I can spell encyclopedia. One of my degrees is in English. Perhaps that is how I can detect copied rubble.
To anonyNOTHING 11:33...
You really need to demand a refund for your degree "in English." You did fail to insert the comma after the word "course." Furthermore, the word "rubble" as defined by Merriam Webster is:
Function: noun
1 a: broken fragments (as of rock) resulting from the decay or destruction of a building "fortifications knocked into rubble" -- C. S. Forester b: a miscellaneous confused mass or group of usually broken or worthless things
2: waterworn or rough broken stones or bricks used in coarse masonry or in filling courses of walls
3: rough stone as it comes from the quarry
It is safe to say that not only do you suck at punctuation your ability to properly use vocabulary is best described as retarded.
I now understand why people such as you post comments as "anonymous."
You are wrong. There is no need for a comma after of course within the text I used it in. I was not using it as a transition. Had it been used as a transition I would have placed a comma there. I was right about your copying and pasting. I am glad to see that you documented your source this time. I made up the term rubble especially for you. It was a combination of your rubbish (meaning garbage- so you don't have to look it up) and your constant babble.
To anonyNOTHING 1:09...
I hate to break it to you but the word "rubble" had already been "made up" prior to your misuse of the word. Now it looks like YOU are the one who is copying and pasting and NOT doing a very good job at it. *LOL@U*
I have finished responding to your prattle. Now go away and invent the internet right after you invent the wheel.
Thanks for the laugh!
Mzchief is finally at a loss for words! Good job anonymous!!!!
Yeah anon.1:09, thank you so so much.
Mzchief...you come across as a mean, arrogant person. I don't know why you insist upon berating people. It certainly does not make you appear any smarter only childish and petty. I really wish this blog had an ignore button, because I for one would certainly use it for you. I'm sure it will be hard for you (being surrounded by inferiors and all) but try and have a happy day.
elle, yyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss, couldnt have said it better myself.
Thanks Elle, I am the 1:09 poster that she was trying to insult with her lack of intelligence. I was able to prove her wrong about copying and pasting from the dictionary and able to explain the instances in which you do and do not use a comma after "of course" so she bailed out of the discussion. I agree that there is no reason to be rude and call names. It is so childish. I am a mature adult. I am educated and opened minded. I can discuss an issue without criticizing those who have a different opinion.
I know she won't quote the bible, she says its a myth, a good story book, but what gets me is where does she know God from, hum.
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