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"ABC news has a great report on the continuing growth of America's prison population. Here are the stats about Prison, USA- 1. America has 5% of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prison population. 2. 5% of ALL black males are in prison. 3. One out of every 133 Americans in in prison. 4. The American prison population is greater than the population of New Mexico. The drug war is to blame for this mess. Prisons are not full because of a surge in violent offenders. Violent crime is down dramatically since 1993. Federal prosecutions for violent crimes are at the same level as 1980. Drug prosecutions are up over 400% over the same period."
36 comments:
The war on drugs is going about as well as the war on poverty. I love the liberal mindset.
Do you think the 400% increase in drug prosecutions has any correlation to the dramatic drop in violent offenders???
sounds like if you don't want to go to prison, don't do drugs ... or at least don't get caught with them. Sounds pretty simple to most folks, I bet.
Must not be that simple if there is a 400% increase in drug prosecutions. What ever we are doing is not working.
Drugs are baddddhhhhhh. Mmmmmkay?
I was drunk the day my mom got out of prison and I went to pick her up in the rain...... you get it.
Thanks for the publicity.
The Drug War is a failure. Last year 15 million American used, not including marijuana. How many more jails would we need if we actually caught all those users?
If we are a free people we should abhor the growth of the police state and the booming prison population.
Drug Prohibition causes violence and corruption and has destroyed the 4th Amendment.
www.iwasthestate.com
How much has the Great Society cost us in welfare for fun babies instituted by the great LBJ? I love the liberal mindset.
A big reason the violent crime rate is down from 1993 is due to the legalization of abortion in 1973. A lot of would-be violent offenders are simply not around to commit these types of crimes these days.
Reagan tried the "just say no" route. Succeeding administrations have engaged in this "war on drugs" to very limited success. If the war on drugs is so important, why don't we spend something similar to the vast sums spent on Iraq? Just prosecuting and sending these druggies to prison doesn't seem to be very effective.
ummm...the drugs these people were convicted of using/selling/possessing were illegal, right? As in "against the law?"
So if I'm understanding correctly, 99.99% of these people chose to engage in an activity that they knew to be against the law. (Allowing for those who didn't realize such a thing.)
I'm not arguing for or against whether these people should be in the big house...but shouldn't they have expected something bad to happen if they got caught?
I'm a libertarian not a liberal. The Welfare State causes it's own set of problems, but the Polive State is a bigger threat to freedom.
Prohibition drug laws make us less safe and should be repealed. If you want to melt your brain with crack have fun.
We have less resources to catch and incarcerate terrorists, rapists, murderers, and sex offenders because of the drug war.
I love how people say " well that what they get for doing drugs"....Do you think their opinions change when it's their kids,grandkids on the stand? I bet then it's the mean-ole D.A. just don't understand...he's a good boy that got in with the wrong group of kids..
iwts -- Why does it seem that the most prominent position of Libertarians is to legalize drugs? I have a couple of friends who are Libertarians and that topic is #1 with a bullet with them. Everything else is secondary.
The damage done by the welfare state (and my position, to put it succinctly, is to offer a hand up rather than a hand out.) is immeasurable -- broken families because the government has made the husband/father disposable. The absence of a father in the home in turn leads to trouble with the children, including (gasp) drug use.
The government bureaucracy can always find ways to waste our money, but I have to agree with the sentiment of anti-drug laws, if not always their execution.
Horrors! I find some agreement with wordkyle on this item. As a liberal I do not do drugs, am very opposed to them, and recognize the damage they do to most (if not all) people. In my most humble opinion catching the low level druggies and sending them to prisons is counter productive. The druggies need that "hand up" to get them out of dependency. The dealers need more severe treatment. The big money guys behind the drug trade needs the incarceration (but they have the lawyers so will never see prison).
Prison may become more of an option to older Americans, if this country doesn't do something logical about medical care/prescription drugs/nursing home care in this country.
But our government has no common sense anymore.
Prohibition against drugs + anti-terrorist activities = police state.
Ah, wordkyle, it's so refreshing to start my day by seeing your finger-pointing. While you can succinctly say "a hand up rather than a hand out", when you say it, you've said nothing. It's a meaningless quip and not a plan whatsoever.
Your position is that we have broken families because the government has made the husband/father disposable. Really? The government is the sole reason that we have a lesser percentage of fathers living with their families?
I absolutely agree that fathers play an important role in raising children. Clearly, we need to encourage that involvement in most families in which it is not occurring. I will not agree that your identification of the "government" as the source of the problem is correct. They have played a part, but as usual, you have pointed your finger at the people that you disagree with, rather than acknowledging that problems as complex as this have many causes and require many answers.
I have found that people with your mindset may say they are happy to provide "a hand up", but when such people are faced with the fact that "a hand up" is more expensive because it includes training, one-on-one intervention, medical treatment, education, housing, job-coaching, etc., they are much less willing to do so.
11:17 sees "a hand up" as including avoiding jail for low level drug users and providing them with treatment to get out of their dependencey. Is that what you were talking about with "a hand up" wordkyle and are you ready to pay for it?
Our system of laws was created by the people and not the police, and it is the people who insist on their enforcement. There seems to be a hint in this subject that the USA is at fault for having such a large prison population compared to other countries. Are other countries as successful as ours in social order? It seems to follow that our criminal laws are better enforced than theirs and the record shows it.
So, where do the liberals want enforcement to stop? Decriminalize drugs? Sure...then when the crack kitchen next door blows up and takes your home with it, rejoice! When an addict high on heroin takes out a string of commuters on the highway with his rock truck, be content that any loved ones you may have lost are justifiably dead.
What other laws should we get rid of? Hey, maybe there are too many murderers and pedophiles in prison. Let's find a way to give them a pass so that we don't have to be ashamed of our high encarceration statistics.
My reply to all of this quivering BS is to build more prisons and never relax on enforcement of our crimal laws so that we can keep criminals locked up up where they belong. DECRIMINALIZE DRUGS? Not in this life. Junkies and dealers will always be criminals to me.
Why is the War on Drugs issue number 1 for many libertarians?
I can only speak for myself. I am a former prosecutor/ current criminal defense lawyer.
I have seen the destruction of the 4th Amendment. The incarceration of hundreds of thousands of Americans. Millions of dollars wasted on victimless crime. The millitarization of the police. And for what?
If someone wants to do drugs, that is there business. The War on Drugs is a threat to freedom and liberty in a way no Nanny State program is.
Welfare does not incarcerate Americans and seize their assets. Food Stamps do not involve home invasion SWAT team raids. The government is not being corrupted by Medicaid dealers.
iwts, what does that have to do with the control of MIND ALTERING/ADDICTIVE DRUGS that LEAD to CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR??? Don't compare apples and oranges here.... makes you look sort of, , uh, well..... dumb!
The war on drugs is bullshit. It just costs us more money than anything. Personally, I wouldn't want to come face-to-face with a really (legally) drunk guy in an alley. However if I met a really (illegally) stoned on pot guy in an alley, he'd probably just giggle and say, "Bro, you shouldn't be in dark alleys."
Let's also not gage right or wrong by what the law says. The law used to say it was ok to have people as slaves, then to count them as 2/3 a person, etc. Reform is necessary. Legalizing certain drugs would make this country a better place. People are obviously going to do drugs, legal or not. Why is pot illegal anyway? Research it. It was a propaganda tool to oppress black people. "Reefer madness."
SPECIAL DELIVERY TO IWTS: I can sure as hell understand why you are no longer a prosecutor. Sounds like you may be on some kind of "prohibited substance" yourself.
I think a lot of what has happened in America is just a lack of respect for authority - in the home, in the church, in the government, in school. How many young people say, "thank you", "yes sir, and "yes mam" to their elders?
I applaud those fathers and mothers who still demand respect from their children. When that happens, those kids spread that respect everywhere they go.
I applaud those churches who don't cave in to consumer religion, but preach sound Biblical doctrines, missionary emphasis and evangelistic thrust.
Establishing respect is hard work.
VERY hard work.
7:41 -- I wasn't aware that I was finger-pointing.
Regarding "hand up vs hand out," I said that I was trying to be succinct. To expand a bit, I believe that welfare recipients should receive job training and job placement help. Attendance would be required, or benefits reduced, then eliminated. (Excepting those who are physically or mentally disabled.) Welfare recipients should have some responsibility placed on them to qualify for them to receive a hand "up." To absolve able adults from responsibility shows no respect for them as human beings.
Do you deny that the welfare system has made husbands/fathers unnecessary to the welfare-receiving segment of the population? The traditional role of the man has been as the breadwinner; now the bread comes from the government. Anecdotal: I know of a family of women (sisters, cousins, mothers/daughters) living off of government welfare with TEN small children -- none of whom have a "legal" father. There are no men in any of the households, other than transient boyfriends.
You clearly don't know my "mindset," because I believe in investing in people. That does not, however, include mindlessly throwing money away because it feels good and assuages Liberal guilt (e.g., the welfare state.) I believe in helping people rediscover their innate dignity and respect, which government handouts steal away.
As for the drug problem, I absolutely see going after the big dogs and prosecuting them. I also believe in helping first-time drug users kick their addiction. If they go back for seconds, however, they move up the food chain and should receive harsher treatment.
10:22 *HURL
Argument- Drug users commit crimes so drugs should be illegal.
Under that logic we should also outlaw alcohol which kills thousands.
If drug users commit crimes then enforce those laws. Arrest anyone who robs, rapes, assaults, murders.
If we weren't chasing dealers and users we would not have to parole so many sex offenders. If you ever wonder so many sex offenders live near you, it is because the jails are full of drug users/dealers.
"what does that have to do with the control of MIND ALTERING/ADDICTIVE DRUGS that LEAD to CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR???"
Making those drugs illegal does not "control" them. We have only changed who the suppliers are. Drug prices are down across the board, drug purity is the highest it has ever been. We are not "controlling" anything. We are giving a multi billion dollars market to organized crime.
As for crackhouses next door blowing up. Are stills blowing up all over America these days? Is moonshine killing thousands?
Americans make drugs at home because that is what we have chosen. Making drugs illegal pushes them underground. Every home drug lab would be shut down if we allowed alternate suppliers.
12:52 -- What is the benefit to society if we legalize all these drugs?
All the pro-drug arguments seem to center around equating drugs with other, legal, bad things (e.g., alcohol, tobacco); or a negative benefit ("save the money spent on drug enforcement, etc").
But I can't see a benefit to society in making more destructive elements easier to obtain.
Wordkyle....Point is these drugs are already easy to obtain despite the billions of dollars we have spent in a war to supposedly make them hard to get.
So how are these drugs beneficial to society?
Tax Revenue to fund education! I am not saying it is the final answer but it beats what we are doing now! I know you already know the definition of insanity!
Because freedom is beneficial to society.
Focusing law enforcement on violent criminals is beneficial to society.
Taking billions away from organized crime is beneficial to society.
Just because you would not do drugs, does not mean we should imprison those who do.
Then let me see if I understand your argument correctly:
1) Heroin is beneficial to society.
2) Cocaine is beneficial to society.
3) Crack is beneficial to society.
4) Crystal meth is beneficial to society.
Are these the points that you're making?
wordkyle-
No ever said any of those drugs are beneficial to society. I am saying that the War On Drugs and Prohibition are not beneficial to society.
We do not need a market for crack that resembles beer. What we need is a supplier other than drug dealers to meet the demand that is there.
We also need to quit arresting users because it is expensive and destroys freedom.
"beneficial to soceity" can not be the standard for freedom. That is the standard for communism.
Liberty starts with the individual not with society comrade.
Slogans aside, I don't understand how legitimizing things that are bad for society (or bad for individuals, if you prefer) can be a good idea.
I definitely support more effective use of government resources so that violent criminals can be dealt with appropriately.
As for freedom and drug use, "your freedom to swing your fist ends at my nose." It seems that 1) A substantial amount of crime is committed to obtain money for drugs; 2) The drugs under discussion are addictive, to the point that users often need hospitalization and treatment. Either they would have to pay out of pocket, or insurance would have to cover it (by raising premiums,} or the government (known as "the rest of us") would have to pick up the tab. Since legitimizing drug use would likely increase the number of users, the costs to the rest of us would also likely increase. Therefore, drug use does hurt other people.
I understand that these arguments can be made about alcohol, tobacco, beef, caffeine or any other number of legal items. What I dispute is the wisdom of increasing the accessibilty to products that are a) not demonstrably beneficial to anyone; and b) demonstrably harmful to the user and other people.
Our "FREEDOMS" are curbed by laws! I like to drive really fast.... so why shouldn't I be allowed to? I mean... we spend sooooo much money on cops, cop cars, equipment, firearms, etc. Why don't we do away with LAW, period? No one would have to HIRE those money grubbing lawyers... money saved! ;-)
Sorry, your "war on drugs costs us money" argument is a bunch of hogwash! It's a very weak argument presented by mindless (probably due to too much drug use already) thinking.
I still have a problem understanding why soooooooo many DO NOT seem to understand the definition of ILLEGAL? ILLEGAL ALIENS... ILLEGAL DRUGS.... ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR... etc. Strange strange strange thinking by some weirded out folks, obviously!
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