blank'/> Liberally Lean From The Land Of Dairy Queen: Things I Care About . . .

7.17.2007

Things I Care About . . .


. . . that most people don't.

Today, Atlanta quarterback Michael Vick was indicted in federal court for taking part in dog fighting.

One thing that makes me shake my head is that the federal government, through the office of the U.S. Attorney, has filed the charges. Not the State of Georgia, not some county in Georgia, the United States of America is using your resources to prosecute this case. (Uh, fellas in the U.S. Attorney's office, you've got a bunch of guys down in Guantanamo Bay that need to be prosecuted (maybe). And you're wasting your time on this?)

It's a local matter. If Vick did something wrong let the local County Attorney or District Attorney file charges. But federal? Please.

Edit: Since the "dog pile" is beginning in the comments, let me clarify. The federal government may be able to legitimately stretch the meaning of "interstate commerce" to gain jurisdiction, I'm just saying that you would never (practically) have seen this type of federal prosecution 10 years ago.

44 comments:

wordkyle said...

Barry, I'm no lawyer, but a paragraph from the article I read said this: "A federal grand jury in Virginia indicted the National Football League player and three other men on charges of conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an interstate animal fighting venture."

Doesn't the fact that it's "interstate" automatically make it a federal issue?

As for Club Gitmo, the Justice Department should only get involved in prosecuting that if we want to convey U.S. Constitutional rights onto foreign enemy combatants -- a stance that a) Makes no sense legally (the Preamble does begin "We the people of the United States..."; b) Was pursued unsuccessfully during the Clinton years (our Justice system doesn't deter people who will send their children out with explosives and suicide instructions); c) would reveal, by subpoena, pro-American Iraqis who obviously don't want to endanger themselves or their families by revealing their identities to the "defendants" and their lawyers (and such information to be passed along to our enemies.)

The enemy does not seem to be very concerned about due process as it tortures, then beheads, captives on video.

Anonymous said...

Would the fact that the defendents are from 2 different states and the dogs (that I do care about) were transported to/from multiple states - including Texas - influence the jurisdiction/court in which the case would be filed?

IMO the defendents - if guilty as charged - should be considered the animals. Even were they to be found guilty, I would still not wish on them the treatment accorded to the dogs.

I, for one, have no problem with part of my tax money being spent on prosecuting a case such as this. And it goes far beyond a love of dogs. I find it inconceivable that there are individuals who look upon this as a "sport" and there are many more with a "to each his own" attitude.

AnObiter said...

No one gives a d*ck about Vick. Twitter on about Bret's craziness.

Anonymous said...

Let's go after the fighting cocks guys, too. It's illegal to fight them in Texas but many cocks are raised here and sent to other states (where apparently it's ok to fight 'em). Sick the feds on these guys, too.

June FN Cleaver said...

Amen 10:43!!! I think that anyone that participates or condones this practice is deranged to the point that I would consider them a threat to society. I'm glad this case will be in the federal court. While I might add that it may serve as a larger example to all of the other freaks that engage in this disgusting practice, those kind of people usually fail to heed it.

Anonymous said...

10:43- Okay, so "concern and love" for dogs makes you feel good about yourself. The overriding stupidity here is that such pointless concern carries with it a self-destructive blindness which will be the ruin of our formerly great society. How so? While you are focused on such new wave nonsense,too many of the things which made us strong in previous generations slip away. To wit, you PETA -like idiots tie up resources while kids and even adults go astray. And this touchy-feely crap sends messages to those who would like to see us fall that in fact, we are soft enough to be toppled.

I'm not saying that a kinder, gentler world isn' a noble sentiment, but unless and until our enemies agree, it's a bad idea.
Do you thimk the generation that defeated fascism in WWII preoccupied themselves with kindness to dogs and roosters. Of course not. They were thankfully busy solving some real problems.

If dog fighting doesn't agree with you, don't do it. Those who want to fight dogs aren't going to take over your way of life. Hitler would have. Ahmadenijad would like to give it a try.

Those who would like the fame of Nero must understand that the world is susceptible to burning if you play the fiddle long enough.

Anonymous said...

libs get indignant when someone uses interstate commerce to prosecute criminals, but applaud when the supreme court uses it to take jurisdiction and give criminals free reign. and if that doesn't work, there are always emanations and penumbras

Anonymous said...

Well Barry you've surely propelled the proverbial sh!!t into the fan with this one. It's bound to get interesting.
Question: was your intent to explore the legal issues here or watch the fireworks peta style?
And if there aren't a whole passel of wise county rednecks who still believe in dog and chicken fighting I'll be surprised.Granted few of them waste their time on a liberal weblog, but I still believe they are out there.
Anyway I'm trying real hard to find some things I like about that bunch.

Anonymous said...

10:43

I for one, have no problem with part of my tax money being used to prosecute people for fishing,hunting, experimenting on rats, killing snakes, using pesticides,etc. where do tou draw the line, And why? They are all God's creatures. Your sentiments are arbitrary, illogical, and unsustainable.

Anonymous said...

Way to divert attention from Vick to Iraq. Bravo!

The folks in Gitmo shouldn't be there anyway. Should have either been killed in combat, or questioned on the battlefield and then executed. Waste of money to prosecute them in the court system.

Anonymous said...

12:38
would it make you feel any better to know that taking a stand on something so inherently cruel as dog fighting has nothing to do with how I feel about myself?

I am not a PETA nut. Yes, I have always had dogs and I get great enjoyment from the 2 I currently have. They are friends and security (as in protection).

I cannot comment on "new wave nonsense" since this is much too broad an issue. However, as a generality, let me assure you that in no way do I suffer from a "self-destructive blindness" that concerns itself with animals over people.

I see the destruction we bring upon ourselves very clearly. I see, and address as I can, kids and adults going astray. I see the lack of accountability, the "if it feels good do it" lifestyles. I see the heroes our children want to emulate and the parents who abdicate their responsibilities and let them. I see "entitlements" becoming the norm and personal responsibility becoming a thing of the past. (Lest you be concerned, this isn't the total list.)

I'm sorry I can't address Nero. I honestly can't figure where he fits.

However, the topic title Barry chose was "Things I Care About".
I do care about dogs. While you might find my feelings to be a "pointless concern", I find nothing contradictory in caring for dogs as well as caring for humans.

When "humans" become "animals", I also find nothing wrong with speaking to the subject.

Pseudonym said...

I agree that dog fights are a cruel activity that has no place in our society but I have to admit I do enjoy a good old-fashion cat fight once in a while. Like this one.

mzchief said...

A society is judged by how it treats its WEAKEST members. Since humans are indeed at the top of the food chain they should refrain the inhuman treatment of ANY animal. Before the PETA loons go bonkers; killing animals for FOOD and putting animals at risk for the betterment of humans is VASTLY different than killing/harming animals for sport.

I do agree with Barry as to questioning WHY dog trafficking/fighting should be a federal issue. One state or county, perhaps the one in which the majority or major illegal activity occurred could prosecute the suspects.

As for the ENEMY combatants in Gitmo, perhaps they, like MOST enemy combatants throughout history, should sit in prison camp until the war is OVER and RADICAL Muslims STOP being terrorist.

Anonymous said...

Has anybody bothered to ask the dogs what they want to do? You'd be surprised. They actually prefer fighting. Something about the way god made em.

Anonymous said...

Barry, I completley agree that this is not the type of crime that we would usually want the Feds to prosecute. However, my spidey sense tells me that there was probably a request made to pursue this crime at the Federal level by someone at the local level. Prosecuting the local NFL football star has far-reaching political effects. Don't you think it's possible that a County Attorney, DA, Judge, or other similar official marked this as a potential problem a long time ago and made a call to some friends with the Feds?

Anonymous said...

Oh wordkyle, so under your interpretation of the Constitution and your position as an American, we should ignore due process because the terrorists ignore due process. I want to thank you and Bush, who shares your interpretation, for helping the U.S. lose all credibility and moral high-ground around the world.

After WWII, the U.S. had respect around the world, partly b/c we treated ALL people with dignity and we helped prosecute people for war crimes.

If you and Bush treated the people housed in Gitmo as POW's that would be fine, but Bush refused to give them the status of a POW and created a new definition of "enemy combatant" for them so that they would have NEITHER the protection of the U.S. Constitution NOR the protection of any treaty or convention related to POW's.

That type of activity creates more terrorists than it deters.

Anonymous said...

do you think control officer Sherri Jo Berend is fighting her jack russells like vick has been doing

wordkyle said...

Well, 10:43, the "enemy combatants" do not fulfill the requirements for either a POW or a U.S. citizen.

The Geneva convention details who shall be considered a prisoner of war. The pertinent part is article 4, A2. It deals with non-military forces who meet the following requirements:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war."


It's pretty clear that the Islamic terrorists don't meet those requirements. The people we are fighting have moved themselves into a new definition of combatant, not covered by the Geneva Convention's definiton of POW.

The "moral high ground" does a lot of good when others are willing to fly airliners into skyscrapers to kill Americans.

What was lost was lost during the Clinton administration, when terrorist attacks were ignored (keeping your precious "moral high ground.") Bin Laden et al were emboldened enough by Clinton's non-response to believe they could attack with impunity.

The so-called "credibility" you believe the U.S. had universally before Bush is a figment of your imagination. The series of terrorist attacks over the last generation indicate otherwise.

"Respect" means nothing unless it keeps people from targeting American targets. For the Islamic terrorists, it's a healthy respect for the consequences of their actions that will keep them in line.

Anonymous said...

Resources, guys, resources. Fine the crap out of Vick and move on to something important as in some Catholic priest, illegal wiretappers, corruption at every level and the list goes on and on and on.

Anonymous said...

Well wordkyle, I've yet to see any diminished terrorism because of the "healthy respect for consequences". If your consequences are to kill people...who blew themselves up...it doesn't make any sense. Almost every credible source indicates there are more "terrorists" in training now than at any other time in history. Go on blaming Clinton, but that's not going to fix the problem that Bush is continuing to escalate.

TXsharon said...

Dear God, please save us from your followers, especially wordkyle.

Anonymous said...

I'd sure rather have wordkyle in the white house than peta in the congress

Anonymous said...

well, 1:36 p.m. and txsharon, I guess your answer would be to give them a coke and a smile, and maybe they'll be our friends...

or better yet, let's let them all into the country like you liberals want to do with the illegals that are already here and make them citizens! That way they can vote everyone out of office and we'll have our own Ayatollah pretty soon, huh!

Anonymous said...

you liberals really make me sick! Do you not remember HOW MANY TIMES the terrorists have killed people by execution? Remember, they film it and show it to the world. Of course, they all have masks on so nobody knows who they are.
Oh yeah, they hide behind women and children, too.
Txsharon, you love them so much, why don't you move to Iraq and join the fight? Oh yeah, I forgot. You would be little more than property over there...
pretty sorry country you live in, huh!
You're pathetic..

Denney Crane said...

Great... we've gone from a great dog fight to a political debate... what's even better is they're blaming the terrorism on Bush & Clinton...

I really like what the lady from New Jersey said, "Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001?

Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from our nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania?

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated" when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet? Well, I don't. I don't care at all.

I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia.

I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called "insurgents" in Iraq come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques.

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of Nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide bombs.

I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care.

When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college-hazing incident, rest assured: I don't care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank: I don't care.

When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed "special" food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being "mishandled," you can absolutely believe in your heart of hearts: I don't care.

And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled "Koran" and other times "Quran." Well, Jimmy Crack Corn and-you-guessed-it -- I don't care!!

Sooner or later, it'll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous behavior!

If you don't agree, please don't complain when more atrocities committed by radical Muslims happen here in our great Country!

You can now judge me and call me "deranged", "cruel", "animal" and "inhuman"... I don't care... I am prejudice... I hate radical Muslims... Ya'll can hug trees, save the cougars, bears, snakes, and dogs, but don't please don't tell us how to treat our sworn enemy...

I wonder if Al Jazeera would show a film with 20 radicals lined up, sprayed with pigs blood and executed?

Denney Crane said...

It's the mad cow...

Anonymous said...

Denney 6:04!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You may be the last stand up human left between these two shores! If that message don't get em we are truly lost. YOU ARE RIGHT< SO RIGHT> And until and unless we get it, that this is how the clash of civilizations must play out, we are in danger of our very existence. Thank you from the bottom of my red- blooded American heart.

Anonymous said...

Denney Crane- what gives you the right to show up here with so much eloquent logic and fu ck up the liberals perfect plan to take their touchy-feely bullshit to the point of surrendering our entire country to the barbarians. Logic? Reason? Common sense? What the hell has gotten into you, man? Are you sane?????

Anonymous said...

3:26 p.m., 3:30 p.m., 6:04 p.m. - AMEN BROTHER!

Anonymous said...

uh, Anyone seen them dogs that was here earlier?

TXsharon said...

Funny thing is I was just telling some people how crazy Wise County folks are. Thanks for giving me this rich material to prove my point.

linking and laughing...

unhappy Falcons fan said...

Uhhhh, actually, all of the crimes mentioned so far were committed (allegedly...) in Virginia. So it's Virginia authorities who should be investigating and prosecuting the case.

The law that the Feds are suing were passed in the 60's to help prsecute the Mafia.

I think the Feds stepped in because the local DA was dragging his feet.

I'm completely up to date on this because I'm a Falcons season ticket holder living in Atlanta. This story has been front and center here since April.

btw, I'm so sickened by the whole thing I can't stand it. If Vick plays, I don't know if I'll even go to the games....

Anonymous said...

Talk about Mad Cow.... tx sharon. Been to the doctor lately?

Anonymous said...

I'm sure we wouldn't agree with a lot of extracurriculars our athletes, entertainers, actors, etc. partake in. The fact is, Vick is an outstanding athlete and there will be many hoping he will play and watching every minute of it...without the alleged "dog fighting" ever entering their minds. I will be one of them.

Anonymous said...

Denny and the boys, apparently someone hit a nerve. My question is that if you're so proud of our country and so proud of our religion (my assumption is Christianity) and so proud of our Constitution...why do you choose to make our country more like those that you oppose? If we are going to wait until the rest of the countries in the world treat us with the respect you believe we deserve before we give them any, there will never be peace.

I judge a country partly on how it treats the lowest of its members, how it treats those that disagree with the majority and how it treats its enemies. You profess to "love thy enemy", yet your words say otherwise. You follow someone that spoke eloquently about what you have done for "the least of these"...yet you distance from that.

I want to be a part of a country that does the right thing...whether our friends, allies, or enemies do or not. If we will not lead by example, how can we expect others to follow?

Don't get me wrong, if the accepted rules are that we shoot people who refuse to show us whether or not they have a bomb...fine. But, if we have the power to treat people with dignity, we should do so. It's not about whether Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, or France do it. It's about the U.S. being a leader and doing what's right.

If, as you suggest, we treat our "sworn enemy" just like they treat us, how are we better?

TXsharon said...

OK, so we kill all the Muslims--all of them. We'd have to kill them all because who makes the determination which ones are radical and which ones aren't PLUS killing one Muslim who is viewed as radical might radicalize his moderate family members. So, we've got to kill them all, every single one of them.

OK. Problem solved. All the Muslims be dead.

Who's next?

Anonymous said...

ten yrs ago you didnt see CEO's with deep pockets being prosecuted either.

Anonymous said...

hey i wonder if he and sherry are good friends and might be able to see each other hile behind bars

Anonymous said...

It's my understanding that viciousness was bred into the breed by humans looking for better fighting dogs so I have to laugh at the poster who said something asinine about asking the dogs what they would want. I say throw the book at the bastard and his cohorts, I don't care whose book it is, federal or state.
Cruelty of that sort has no valid place in society.

As for the rest of you straight down party line misfits, it might behoove you to look up the word compromise in the dictionary. You're all stuck in the rut of black and white thinking....there are many shades of grey. What you're doing is not working, here or in the greater scope of politics.

Anonymous said...

I'd never heard of Michael Vick until he got in trouble for killing dogs.

Denney Crane said...

9:19 AM

I respect what you say and understand where you are coming from...trust me, I do. Your reasoning is valid and it's obvious you are a much better person than I am.

I would hope you would respect (not necessarily agree) with what I am going to say. As an old man suffering from mad cow, I have come to the conclusion that good intentions and reality are two completely different entities.

First, I am truly thankful that the leadership in our country is not run by public opinion. The public "feels"... and feelings change like the wind. Thank goodness God's love is not based on how He feels.

Doing "the right thing" is a matter of opinion. The 9/11 attackers believed they were doing the right thing. So much so they gave their lives for that belief. (Which I think is admirable…but not tolerable)

You assume you know a lot about me as well as our enemy. As an infidel, the only respect my Arab brothers have for me is my strength of force. They will never follow our leadership unless it serves their purpose. They will never admire us me because we treat them with dignity, only our use of force will impress them…that’s the only reason our military is stationed in Saudi Arabia…to protect the royal family and their oil reserves.

As for me, I am not proud of what our country has become! We kill the unborn; allow murder, rape and pedophilia; promote homosexuality, adultery, promiscuity, power, greed, and rebellion. Why would anyone (other countries included) want to follow our leadership when, as Christians, Americans allow such abominations. I actually have a great respect for how the laws in Arabic countries are enforced…not their punishment. "The strength of sin is the law"

We would not be discussing any of these problems if those Hebrews would have gone ahead and killed every last man, woman and child that God commanded them to when they went to the promised land. I thought God was pretty harsh when He flooded the earth and killed almost everyone and everything, but what do I know. It started with Ishmael and will play out as ordained from the beginning.

I share this with you not to change your mind, but so you might understand my reasoning. I refuse to be victimized. I am sorry the innocent are dying. I think we are hypocrites to make such a big deal of animal cruelty when every day, hundreds of children die (are killed) in South Africa and hundreds of children are sold into slavery in China (the list could go on).

I would hope you would pray for my corrupt heart and lack of compassion for our enemies. I guess I must be my greatest enemy…otherwise I would forgive our leaders for lying, cheating and stealing. I wouldn’t be so heartless concerning the punishment of criminals…no matter their race, profession, income or political affiliation.

;) Denney Crane

Anonymous said...

txsharon, if you could answer denney's last comment intelligently I MIGHT start to think about you as more important than the dogs you agonize over. Right now you are obviously a bigger part of the problem than the solution.

Anonymous said...

There was Ol' Denney Crane,
Hate filled comments to complain,
To talk nonsense about stuff
Makes Ol' Denney seem tough,
The truth, Denney is just Insane.

Anonymous said...

Uhhh...Whay would you expect Georgia to indict him???? All of this allegedly took place at a house he owns in Virginia.