The Campaign For DA


Your Best Bag Of Money Now

According to the New York Times (no link because subscription required): Joel Osteen . . . the pastor of Houston's Lakewood Church, one of the nation's largest congregations, and the author of Your Best Life Now: 7 Steps to Living at Your Full Potential. has signed a book deal with Free Press, an imprint of Simon & Schuster, that publishing insiders say is potentially one of the richest for a nonfiction book and could bring the author more than $10 million.


Anonymous said...

40 percent for taxes, 10 percent to the church, well he still has enough to scratch on.

Anonymous said...

So who cares?

Anonymous said...

The Rich keep getting richer and us poor folks keep starving

Anonymous said...

Let's see what we can stir up today. Religion, yeah that's the ticket. An inflamatory headline ought to do it.

Money and preachers. Perfect mix for 67 posts.

Nice work Barry! I guess you would turn the money down. Righhhhhht.

wizard said...

"I can give you all false hope with this load of crap book..... GIVE ME MONEY!!!!!!"

Anonymous said...

I think Wizard is on to something. Another mega church pastor pumping out another book that just repeats and rephrases that other book - the Bible. Well if the sheep not only pay to hear this guy want to buy his book too, I guess it's their right. Remember Elmer Gantry, the snake oil salesman? Well some things just don't change.

Anonymous said...

You folks better not let ...

Kenneth Copeland hear about this ...

He needs another "Shack" out here on Eagle Mountain lake ...

Anonymous said...

You liberal's make me sick!

You are poor becasue you want to be

Anonymous said...

Liberal's are poor???

What makes you think I am poor???

I have money because all good deeds come full circle ....

Anonymous said...

Ths guy sold his soul to the devil a long f'ing time ago. Look at him, he looks like a souless robot. More power to him here on earth, but he is going on the express train to hell along with hitler and the deaf girl that got hit by the train.

m&m said...

Why don't the Christian churches today operate the way the church did in New Testament times? They all claim to be Biblical but do things a lot differently.

First of all, in the New Testament, it was a lay clergy. They did not get paid.

Second, the clergy were called to be in such a position from all walks of life. Fisherman, tax collecters etc. There wasn't this formal schooling or seminary to train them.

Third, they didn't decide themselves to go into the clery. They were called by those already in authority.

Anonymous said...

Really good points 8:49 - don't you suppose one of the "SEVEN WAYS TO LIVE UP TO YOUR FULL POTENTIAL" (as a minister) is to jack up the ignorant and get them to send their money in.

Then you can write a book and rake in the moolah.

Quite a contrast to Mother Teresa isn't it?

Anonymous said...

anon8:49 Go back and read your Bible! They did get paid! Read it its there.

Don't speak unless you know the facts! It makes you look silly.

Anonymous said...

anon 2:34 You are poor because you want to be! We live in the best country in the world! Get off your butt and go do it! The sky is the limit!

m&m said...

Anon 11:21 Check this out-straight from the Bible. KJV

Matt 10:8 Jesus said: "freely ye have received, freely give"

Acts 20:34 "these hands have ministered unto my necessities" In other words, they paid their own way.

1 Cor. 4:12 "working with our own hands"

1 Cor. 9:18 "I preach.. the Gospel of Christ without charge"

2 Thess. 3:8 "we..wrought with labour..not be chargeable to any of you"

1 Peter 5:2 "Feen the flock..not for filthy lucre"

There's the facts. Now I don't look silly.

Anonymous said...

M&M KEEP READING Paul told the church to take care of the preachers! ( he was talking about money)

m&m said...

Anon 1:02 I like how you just make general statements without scriptural backup. Three of the scriptures I gave as examples came from letters written by Paul. So, is Paul contradicting himself? Or is the Bible contradicting itself?

Anonymous said...

You are the one that said they did not get paid! And they did!

Anonymous said...

Don't take them out of context

Anonymous said...

Also they sold everything and gave it to the church! Have you sold everything m&m and gave it to the church?

Anonymous said...

2 Corinthians 9 :6,7,8,9,10
Romans 10:13-15
I cor 1:21
I Tim 5: 17-18
I Cor 9:3-14 read vr 11-14 Paul tells the story here those who preach the gospel should also live from the gospel

any questions?

Anonymous said...

Its not right to muzzle the ox

Anonymous said...

m&m can I ask you some questions?
1. Do you go to church?
2. If you do, do you tithe?

Anonymous said...

The ones with the problem with preachers getting paid, are the ones who don't give just cry about it.

m&m said...

Yes, I do and yes, I do. Ten percent of my income.But our church has a lay clergy. No one is paid for their service to the kingdom, as it was in the New Testament Church. When a preacher is paid you honestly don't know their true motivation.

Anonymous said...

That's Great! m&m what about I Tim 5:17,18? They got paid

Anonymous said...

Good Grief!!! Nothing like using the Bible for a weapon.

Anonymous said...

Reminds me of a story a preacher told me one time. He was at a church and was invited to be their pastor. When they asked him what salary would be required he told them, "Ya'll eat steak, I'll eat steak. Ya'll eat beans, I'll eat beans."

Anonymous said...

LOL thats true

m&m said...

Anon 1:44 You need to read them in context. That even proves my point more vividly. I did not take them out of context.

Anon 1: 57 Your Romans and 1 Cor. 1 passages have nothing to do with what we're talking about. Those other passages are talking about the traveling ministers, such as the apostles who went from city to city. Jesus explains this concept in Matt. 10:9-12, telling them to rely on the local church members in each city they visited for a place to stay and eat. None of them talk about receiving cash. But none of these relate to the local clergy who always stayed in each city. They lived their normal life as a tentmaker or whatever and served in the church without monetary pay as illustrated in the passages previously cited.

Anonymous said...

Why is that anytime a preacher or evenglist becomes rich, everyone gets angry. But when a group of drug addicts make millions of dollars singing "f" the system songs, you go out and buy their latest cd!

Anonymous said...

A person enters the ministry because they are called of God. (most people, anyway.) Not becasue they feel like they can get rich. The Lord provides our every need. The Bible also says not to gossip and slander others, but to love everyone. We can't have life both ways. We either believe it all, or believe none. Regardless, some people just like to argue to stir up trouble.

m&m said...

Anon 7:46 am Heb. 5:4 says no man can take this honour unto himself unless he is called of God, as was Aaron. How was Aaron called? God revealed to Moses to call Aaron to his calling. Just as I stated in my first entry, they are suppose to be called by those who are already in authority, who have had it revealed to them by God. They are not to be self appointed.
You say they are called by God. Do you mean God speaks directly to them and tells them to enter the ministry? Does God have a preference as to what church they minister in? Or are they all the same to him?
It seems to be just a career choice, whether a doctor, lawyer, insurance agent, banker whatever. When bigger money is offered at another church, they move. Now is that inspired by God or dollar signs.
I'm very familiar with the church construction industry, and when they sit down with architects and construction folks, they know precisely how much each seat will generate and they go to extreme measures to cram as many seats into as little space as possible. They know by the number of seats and the number of sessions on Sunday and Wednesdays how much cash they will generate. It's a business, like any other business. Tax free.

Anonymous said...

M&M I do not know what Church you are with but I know a lot of minister's THAT DO NOT THINK THAT WAY!It's not about the money!

It's about being called by God!
I know this first hand!I went from a big Church to a smaller Church!

Like I said I know a lot of Pastor's They would never never
look at building Church so more money could come in!

Church is not a business it is a family!

So what Church do you go to?

Anonymous said...

To m&m:
We need to stop being so judgemental. As far as a career goes, our whole life is to serve God. While I may agree that some take advantage of their position; others have a true calling and could care less about the money. God does to speak to us, we just have to choose to listen or to ignore. God bless.

Anonymous said...

m&m you are wrong God speaks to us 24/7

Anonymous said...

2:54 - you are right on target. Barry starts posts on religion and likely grins from ear to ear when the numerous responses come pouring in. It is amazing how many Biblical experts are lurking on this site.

I'm waiting for him to post something about preachers molesting parishioners.

Wow, what a stir!

m&m said...

I concede the point that there are some that are not in it for the money. I have always thought that, but there are a lot of them that are.
You keep saying they are called by God. How? If you are saying God tells them directly, that is not biblical. If you properly study the Old Testament and New Testament and the early writings of the post-apostolic church fathers, you will find with very rare exception (such as Paul's calling) that men were called into authority positions in the local churches by those already in authority. For example Paul and Barnabas might go into a city and have many converts and then organize the leadership in that congregation, by God revealing to them who should be called as the bishop over that congregation.
Why did you switch from a big church to a small church and what do you look for? Does truth enter in at all in that decision?
Whoever said God speaks to us 24\7, I need scriptural back up for that statement. And if your hearing a voice in your head all the time you may need special evaluation.

Anonymous said...

m&m When I got saved the Holy Spirit came on the inside of me.
The same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead is on the inside of me! He guide's me 24/7. Jesus said He would come and be my helper!
So He does speak to me all the time. But we get busy and most of the time we do not hear Him.

I went for less money! Why becasue Im in His will and if im in His will He will take care of me!

Matthew said to seek His Kingdom and all of His righteousness and ALL these things shall be added to you!All my needs are meet!

Why Because I am righteous!!!!!

m&m said...

Explain to me what you mean when you say "I got saved". Do you believe once saved always saved? And again, where is your scriptural support for your general statements?

m&m said...

Come on, I love to hear people explain this 'saved' idea. It's amazing to think you are perfect now and don't sin since Jesus posesses your body and directs your every word,decision, thought and deed.

Anonymous said...

m&m When I got saved it was my spirit that got saved! I still sin we all do. I am three parts spirit, soul, body. It's our spirit that gets saved it is sealed where sin cannot enter our spirits.God see's us through our spirit! Jesus died once on the cross for ALL of my sin's past, now, future sins.

All of my sins are forgiven! When God looks at me He see's my bornagain spirit! Not my sin. I still must confess my sin,( it keeps me from letting the devil have an open door into my life)

The Bible says that I am the righteousness of Christ! It's not because Im good or anything like that it's because I put my faith in what Jesus did at the cross!

I do not believe you can lose your salvation if you lose it its lost forever!
See Eph 1:13( sealed)
Romans 10:9 (saved)

I am in rightstanding with God 24/7
Righteousness means (rightstanding)
Why am I in rightstanding with God 24/7? It's not because I am a good person etc..It's becasue of Jesus and my faith in Him.

Anonymous said...

m&m Do you believe in Jesus? And that He is the only way to heaven?

m&m said...

Anon 11:45 am Your statements "When I got saved it was my spirit that got saved! I am three parts spirit, soul, body. It's our spirit that gets saved it is sealed where sin cannot enter our spirits" are some strange indoctrination you've received from someone or somewhere, but certainly not from the Bible.

This once save, always saved doctrine teaches gaining eternal life in heaven is a single event and not a process. So, at that moment you are supposedly saved, no matter what you do the rest of your life, you are saved. FALSE! In explaining it, you all fall into the trap of contradicting yourselves. You say once that moment of salvation occurs all of your sins past, present, and future are forgiven, yet you turn around and say that for any future sins you MUST confess or repent of them. HUGE CONTRADICTION. If you still must do something in the future to negate the effect of sin, then you were never guaranteed eternal life in heaven when you were supposedly saved.

The mistake comes with false interpretation of scripture. There's a focus on the scriptures that say 'believe and be saved' while ignoring other scriptures that say you must do other things to be saved.

According to the Bible, we must do the following to go to heaven:
Endure faithful to the end:Matt. 10:22;24:13;Mark 13:13

Obey the commandments: Matt. 19:17; Luke 18:20; Mark 10:19

Forsake all: Matt. 19:27-29; Mark 10:28-30; Luke 18:28-30

Be Baptized: Mark 16:16; John 3:3-5

Believe: Mark 16:16; Luke 8:12; Acts 16:30-31; Rom. 10:9; John 3:36; 3:15-16; 5:24; 6:40&47

Pray: Acts 2:21; Rom. 10:13

Have Hope: Rom. 8:24

Confess sin: 10:9

Love God and Neighbor: Luke 10:25-28

Study the scriptures: John 5:39

Partake of the sacrament: John 6:54

Do good works: Rom. 2:6-7; John 6:27; Matt. 25:1-13; 25:14-30; 25:31-46; John 4:36; Gal. 6:7-9; James 1:22,25,27

All of these are passages that state a requirement in order to be saved or gain eternal life. You can't focus on one or two scriptures and think that's it. Look at the big picture.

With this doctrine, keeping the commandments, paying tithe, attending church, living by the golden rule, etc. become meaningless and unnecessary. Because you are going to heaven whether you do them or not. According to this doctrine they should be called the reccommendations, not the commandments.

Anon 11:59 am Yes, I do believe in Jesus Christ and that He is my Savior and Redeemer and the only way to heaven. I also believe gaining eternal live through his atonement is a life-long process with a constant effort of being faithful and repenting until the end of my mortal life. It's not a single event.

Anonymous said...

m&m you missed the whole point
But I did notice where you said you had to do a bunch of works to get saved wrong!

m&m said...

Hello, I did not say that. The Holy Bible said that. Read those passages and be enlightened. You are focusing on a few scriptures and ignoring the rest. Please explain the HUGE CONTRADICTION for me. I can't wait to hear it.

Anonymous said...

The Bible says to confess our sins to one another!

So you believe you can lose your salvation?

Anonymous said...

So m&m What part of you got saved?

Anonymous said...

The Greatest commandment is to Love the Lord with all your heart, all your mind and soul! Thats the new one He gave

Anonymous said...

I bet you think God puts sickness on people to teach them a lesson right?

m&m said...

I believe no ones knows they are going to heaven until the judgement day. That is why we must endure to the end faithful. So, you can't lose what you didn't ever have. In regards to loving God, Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments". As a math equation this would read "Love God=Keep commandments". So, the way we demonstrate our love for God is by keeping His commandments. I don't think God makes it a habit of causing illness to teach a lesson, but I do believe He is capable of doing that and in fact has done that on occasion, such as with Job and his boils.

Anonymous said...

Matthew 22:36 They asked Jesus what was the greatest commandment in the law? ( O.T.) You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your soul, and with all your heart! Jesus said this was first and great commandment!

The second is like it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

On these two commandments hang all the law ( O.T.)

Its all about Love

Anonymous said...

The Bible says that as many as received Him were given the power to become the sons of God (I John 1:12)

I know that I am saved! Right now!

I still sin I confess my sin's Why sin is rebellion towards God. Its a road block that I put up not God!

My sin does not affect God's relationship with me! But it can affect my relationship with Him.

m&m read your bible you can be sure of your salvation right now!
salvation is based on what Jesus did at the cross not what we do or don't do.

If a person is truly saved he will love the Lord and obey his commandment! Everyday!

I know there is a lot of people who say they are saved but their deeds prove otherwise.

But God's Spirit bears withnes to my spirit that I am saved! Only by the blood of Jesus! Nothing more nothing less.

Its a relationship! 24/7 I love the Lord with all my Heart, soul, and mind! And from that relationship I do all of the commandments out of Love not for my salvation. Eph 1:13

m&m said...

Your statements of "I know that I am saved right now" and "God's spirit bears witness to my spirit that I am saved" are statements you would hear from everyone of those you said "whose deeds prove otherwise". I have seen it and I have heard it. Bill Clinton is a supposed saved soul and committed adultery in the White House. Timothy McVeigh was a suppposed saved soul and killed 180 or so people. And according to your false doctrine these two are heaven bound, even without repentance or anything.

Once again, you say you are saved right now, but you must confess sin. It doesn't make sense. If you are saved right now, then you don't have to do anything or you could go out and committ every sin possible and guess what? You are still gauranteed heaven. Isn't that sweet.

Look up passages that talk about the final judgement and guess what they all say we all will be judged on. Our works or deeds. Gosh, but if they aren't important, why I am going to be judged on them. And what is the judgement for? Why, I think it's to determine my final destination in the eternities. But they aren't important.

Anonymous said...

m&m don't get silly on me the bible like I said you must confess your sins to one another.

The only Judgement that I will face is the Judgement seat of Christ!

God put all His warth on Jesus at the cross.

So you like putting words in peoples mouth.

Now answer this for me
1. Is Jesus the only way to heaven? yes or no

2.Does your works help you to get to heaven? yes or no?

m&m said...

So, by your own words, if you did not confess to one another then you would not be saved, so it's not guaranteed.

Why do you keep forcing me to school you in the scriptures?
Eccl. 3:17 God shall judge the righteous and the wicked;

Eccl. 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgement, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Matt. 12:36 That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgement.

Matt. 16:27 the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness...

Rom.14:10 for we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ.

Rev. 20:12-15 ...and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
....and they were judged every man according to their works.

Wow, notice all those that talk about all mankind being judged by what? What? I can't hear you. What? Oh, our works. You've got to be kidding.

The answer to both your questions is an emphatic YES. I know that God lives. That He is our Father in Heaven. I know that Jesus Christ is our savior and redeemer and that He was the promised messiah. I know that he atoned for our sins in Gethsemane and on the cross and that he truly was resurrected from the dead and is a glorified and perfected being with that resurrected body of flesh and bones today.

Anonymous said...

I never said that m&m that you had to confess your sin to someone else to be saved? Putting words in my mouth again

Notice at the Judgement seat of christ Where will that be? In heaven right? Right! So its safe to say that my works or lack of works didn't get me there right? Yes m&m that is right again boy you sure are smart.

The judgement is our works that we did here on earth for the Lord Jesus and His work everything else we did while on this earth not related to Jesus will be burned up! Our works will be burned up not us! All of our works will go through the fire! Notice works not you.

The Judgement in Rev that you refered to is talking about what the dead! Well Im not dead and will not be dead in heaven! So that vr is not talking about bornagain believers (oops I forgot you don't believe in being bornagain) The Great White Throne Judgement is for the unbelievers

Anonymous said...

Works is a byproduct of our relationship with the Lord!
No works will get me into heaven not one!

Because if my works will get me there then why did Jesus die for me? My bible says I am saved by the Grace of God and not by works lest any man should boast!

Anonymous said...

Also I live in the N.T. Not the Old!

Anonymous said...

Where is the Love and forgiveness m&m you sure are a hard person! Jesus said Love, Love, Love

Not Works, works, works.

When you get there all your works will be burned up why? You will say Jesus look what I did! Look at me

m&m said...

Check your 11:45 am entry. You said,"I still MUST confess my sin". That word 'must' is absolute. And I didn't put it in your mouth, you did.

Your second paragraph is par for your sense and logic. Since everyone will be judged, both good and evil, then according to your logic everyone is going to heaven, both good and evil, since the judgement will occur at the judgement seat of Christ. So, according to your logic, since the judgement is in heaven believers and unbelievers will be there. Duh! It doesn't matter where the judgement occurs, it's purpose is to determine our final reward for the eternities.

Your third paragraph is totally psycho. Not one bit biblical or scripturally based. "Our works unrelated to Jesus will be burned up." What are you on? Our works are recorded in the books of heaven. Every thought, word, action etc. I mean how do you burn up a thought or spoken word or an action that happened in the past. Can you stay with the Bible and not this psycho-babel stuff. Are you getting that from some TV evangelist or Brother Olsteen's book? Grasping at straws big time.

The word 'dead' in the Rev. passages refers to those that have died. Plain and simple, billions and billions that have died since Adam until the 2nd coming, both righteous and unrighteous to stand before God and be judged out of the books of heaven including the book of life. What's so difficult about that? Are you saying you are immortal and will not die? I highly doubt it.

Jesus died and suffered to create a bridge to span that gulf or chasm between man and God. No one else has bridged that chasm, that is why Jesus is the only way to the Father and the only way to heaven. It is through his grace and atonement that it is possible, without it there is no way, not even our works could get us there. But since he created the strait and narrow way, with his help and combined with our efforts to keep his commandments and repenting when we sin, we will make it to life eternal.

But if you are an honest person, you have to admit the Bible says you have to do more than just believe and have that single event. The rich young man came to Jesus and asked what he needed to do to gain eternal life. According to you Jesus should have said, Believe in me and you've got it made. But he didn't. He simply said, "Keep the commandments". Hello, there goes your whole theory right out the window. Bye bye.

Jesus said to John the Baptist that he needed to be baptized to 'fulfill all righteousness'. Well, if Jesus being perfect, needed baptism to fulfill all righteousness, then how much more need have we being imperfect need baptism. So, baptism evidently, according to the Bible is necessary.

Are you telling me the OT is irrelavant. That's just crazy. A prophet testifying of the judgement is irrelavant just because he said 3 or 4 or 5 thousand years ago. Are you nuts? The OT is awesome, has great stories and principles in it and all the prophecies of the messiah to come. By Christ fulfilling those prophecies, it helped substantiate his role as the messiah.

Christ was for love, but sometimes tough love too. Remember him clearing the temple and his strong language to the Pharisees and Saducees.

Anonymous said...

I wish you would stop putting words in my mouth and answer my questions. Like what part of you is saved? there many more thaqt you will not answer.

And yes the O.T. is great I read it a lot but everything change at the cross!

m&m Did God put all His wrath on Jesus at the cross?

I will say this one more time for some reason you are reading only what you want to see.

Salvation is a single event! Duh!
Its a relationship 24/7 and thru that relationship we keep His commandment!Do good deeds in His name etc...

Anonymous said...

Do you know that when you get saved the Spirit of God comes on the inside of you? And lives thru you? This is a single event! This happens one time.

m&m said...

I already showed how your comments in your 11:45 am entry are unbiblical. You have been falsely indoctrinated by saying you are three things - spirit, soul and body and only your spirit is saved. So, you don't believe you will be resurrected with your glorified and perfected body. If not, then I don't know what Bible you read. If you do, then your body is saved too and your statement is false. Do you just read through the Bible and any verses that don't make sense with your philosophy you just take some white out and remove them? That's what it sounds like.

So, is what you are saying, if someone is truly saved, then they essentially are perfect? They keep the commandments perfectly because now they are possessed with this spirit that will not let them sin.

I will tell you again, your doctrine cannot be biblically proven. It is absolutely false. You have not proven it by the scriptures and I have disproved by the scriptures over and over again. Jesus disproved it when he told the rich young man, "keep the commandments". And I believe he would be the ultimate authority.

Actually, the Bible teaches that the spirit of the Holy Ghost was given by the laying on of hands. Did someone with priesthood authority lay their hands on you to give you the holy ghost? See Acts 8:17 and I could supply more scripture proof if you'd like.

Anonymous said...

I guess speaking in tounges is out of the question

m&m said...

The speaking and interpretation of tongues are part of the spiritual gifts that some are blessed with.

I have enjoyed the jousting back and forth. May God bless you to be a searcher of truth where ever it may be found.

Anonymous said...

Its yours if you will ask for it